Lightening a 1911

[Robk]

So I have seen some interesting work on 1911s as of late. Most noticeable are milled out grips and of course slide cuts. Are these OK to do, or is there a mechanical issue that would be encountered? Other than a reduced spring weight if the slide was lightened. And lastly, would any of these type of modification be ok to carry? If anyone has one of these, would appreciate pictures and thoughts about why you did it and how you like it.

Thanks for any and all input.

Rob

 

[RickB]

Are you talking about milling that is specifically for the purpose of lightening?
Some material removal is little more than cosmetic, but it does lighten the slide even if that's not the reason for doing so.

A somewhat popular mod for 1911s is "Browning cuts" at the front of the slide; it makes the gun minutely easier to holster, looks cool, but depending on dimensions, you can cut into the locking notch for the barrel bushing, leaving the slide weak in that spot, or even resulting in a hole.

The same is true of flat-topping the slide, which can be overdone and weaken the slide.

I have a long-slide .45 with holes milled in it to reduce the weight to that of a 5" slide. It does look cool, but the reason for the lightening was to eliminate any sluggishness from the additional weight.

 

[Robk]

Yes, your long slide is what I am talking about. But could and should it be done to an officer's model. Also I have seen the side grips cut out, what would that accomplish? Other the looks? Not sure if any of these would be worth while on a standard or officers model. Just seeing what can and can not be done.

Background on this question. I have a old Thompson PITBULL that is a mix of a full side frame and an officers length slide, well almost the same length. It is a solid piece of steel and I was contemplating having it bob tailed, and perhaps a little metal removed for a more comfortable weight. This is a project gun and not even sure if it will ever run reliably, but I'm looking at options.

Thanks,

Rob

 

[Jim Watson]

Maj. Geo. C. Nonte's old book 'Pistolsmithing' discusses weight reduction, with suggestions of where to cut. His methods would probably horrify 21st century gunsmiths, but they worked then and they will work now.

 

[Robk]

JIM,

thanks, will have to look into that.

Rob

 

[Hunter Customs]

There's all types of lightening cuts that can be done on a 1911.
Some of the guns I built for steel shooting the slide were so light they required a 6 or 7 pound recoil spring so they would function.
I personally never seen the need for the lightening cuts on a 1911 defense/carry gun, none of mine have them.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

 

[4V50 Gary]

Remember that lightening a slide means there is less mass and weight. This will result in faster unlocking of the slide (not that the shooter can visually tell) and higher energy as the slide slams back and is arrested in its movement.

You can certainly mill out a slide, but be reasonable in the weight and material removed. If there is a shorty version of the pistol, I'd go no lighter than the shorty's slide (and you may have to increase the recoil spring strength to slow down the unlocking).

 

[James K]

And you can end up with a slide lightened enough that it cracks due to opening too soon, or battering of the frame due to the slide moving too fast. I seem to recall an old song that went, "You push it in here and it pops out there!".

Jim

 

[HiBC]

John Moses designed it with the 5 in slide. The balance he came up with has been working for 106 years.Its not done yet.
In the first part of recoil,till unlocking,the slide and barrel area team.They weigh in together.

Well,the Commander is a little lighter in the slide.The Officers,lighter still.Then the Defender or whatever other pug nosed 1911's have been made.

Its an amazing testimony to JMB's design that it is so flexible and forgiving.

I have been told that for long term reliability the 5 in Gov't is best,and as slides get shorter reliability goes down.I can't say for sure,I stopped at the Commander length.
Speed competition looks for hundtredths of a second.Gain 1/100th of a second each slide cycle,you have something. A little less inertia bounce from the slide going to battery makes for control. These guys lighten slides.

But,they have full length or commander lengt slides.They have comps both slowing the slide via gas,and adding weight.Or they have bull barrels.

So I suggest you consider the gas assist at slowing the slide,plus more steel in the longer slides,before you reduce the weight of your short slide.

A lightened 5 in slide will still probably weigh more than a Defender slide.

 

[Hunter Customs]

Speed competition looks for hundtredths of a second.Gain 1/100th of a second each slide cycle,you have something. A little less inertia bounce from the slide going to battery makes for control. These guys lighten slides.

Yep, I got booted to second place once by 2/100ths of a second, maybe I blinked.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Lightening a 1911 is generally done by using an aluminum frame. All the slide cutting is only icing on the cake.

 

[Robk]

Thanks for all the replies. All this is something to consider. I don't know if anyone is familiar with the Thompson Pitbull. It is a full size frame with a shortened slide. Slightly shorter than a commander. It employs a bull barrel with a bushing. Also a solid piece of steel. Would like to make it just a bit lighter. Have considered the grip and slide as 2 areas that could make this happen. But first have to exercise the gremlins out of it. If not, it will make a great paperweight.

 

[HiBC]

I do not know the Thompson Pit Bull.
If they cut back a 5 in slide,you still have a 5 in slide geometry dealing with a 5 in frame. No big alarm bells there.
I don't understand "bull barrel with a bushing".I would expect a bull barrel,but I would expect that to be bushingless.The barrel fits the approx. .700 bore in the slide.
You may very well have a "reverse plug" to retain the recoil spring.That is probably a requirement.
You might read what you can at the Wilson website about flat wire springs.What flat wire does for you,is it will fully compress to a shorter length,avoiding spring bind.And,I understand the springs on shorties need changing more often.Wilson also suggests standard pressure 185 gr loads.
IMO,an opportunity to lighten a bull barrel gun might be fluting.Mentally,I have "cartooned" the idea of 5 flutes,down to what would be the OD of a stock 45 barrel.
I do like 1911's.
I can tell you an economical way to put together a 23 oz 7+1 45ACP with a 3.5 in bbl. No cranky little idiosynchs.

Buy a S+W 45 Shield for well under $500. Custom work is not cheap .

And its tough to turn an F-150 into a Mini-Cooper.