License question.

[lilguy]

If one has a substancial collection of modern arms now, is there any advantage to getting a C+R lic? There are older items I'd like to add, but my established
collections includes many modern legal assault style arms and mingling them and having ATF inspections makes me a bit nervous. What are the advantages
to such a Lic? Any negatives?

Thanks.

 

[Hardcase]

The obvious advantage is not having to go through an 01FFL to purchase firearms. Another is that outfits like Brownells and Midway recognize the 03FFL just like any other and give you the same discounts.

I don't see the need for any heartache over your modern guns. I get the impression that your odds of an ATF visit are about the same as getting hit by lightning. Besides, you mentioned the key word in your post - "legal".

Anyway, if you want to put your mind at ease, keep the C&Rs in one safe and the other stuff in another safe. You can show the ATF that your log matches the C&R guns and you're done.

For what it's worth, when I've talked to our local ATF agents, they tell me that they're not much concerned with C&R guys. They've got much bigger fish to fry.

 

[Don H]

Very few 03FFL's get inspected by BATF. I think I recall reading, though, that 03 applicants in a few states with draconian anti-gun laws are subject to an onsite interview.

 

[twins]

+1 to the dealer discounts at several online retailers.

 

[lilguy]

CLEO sign off Sheriff or Police chief? Does it have to be your town official. My brother is a neighboring Police Chief.

 

[Don H]

Just to be clear, the CLEO doesn't have to sign off or approve anything regarding an 03FFL - the CLEO just has to be notified. The question as it reads on the renewal form I just happen to have on my desk:

Has a completed COPY of this renewal application form (front & back) been sent or delivered to the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the premises is located? Date sent:____________ CLEO's Name & Title:___________

It seems to be clear that the CLEO notified must have some jurisdiction over the actual premises that is licensed.

 

[lilguy]

Soooo. I Just have to deliver the form and introduce myself? Anything I need to
prepare myself for? Can he challenge it, do I need his sig or ok?

Where can I read the pertinent C+R statute in It's entirety?

Thanks all.

 

[Tidewater_Kid]

The CLEO does not approve the form. Just mail him a copy. That's all that's required.

TK

 

[Don H]

I Just have to deliver the form and introduce myself? Anything I need to prepare myself for? Can he challenge it, do I need his sig or ok?

There is no requirement for personal interaction with the CLEO. Just mail the form to him. Some people include a brief cover letter informing him that the form is just informational. There is no place on the form for his OK or signature. I've never heard of a CLEO challenging a C&R app.

The pertinent codes/regulations are:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_01/27cfr178_01.html

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_44.html

 

[James K]

There has been some talk of dropping the CLEO signature requirement on all the forms.

It is really a "cover our a**" thing by BATFE, in case a nutcase city council passes a law in the dark of night and BATFE doesn't know about it. The CLEO is not really "approving" the license (though many take it that way); he/she is only saying that issuing the license/tax stamp would not violate local law in that jurisdiction.

(Of course some CLEO's make signing contingent on receipt of a healthy bribe or a political contribution to the "correct" politician or party.)

Jim

 

[jonnyc]

"Of course some CLEO's make signing contingent on receipt of a healthy bribe or a political contribution to the "correct" politician or party"

But there is nothing in the C&R application for them to sign.

 

[Cheapshooter]

The CLEO does not approve the form. Just mail him a copy. That's all that's required.

And it doesn't have to be any special mailing. No registered mail, receipt requested, or none of that. Just plain old US Mail.
You are just stating on the Form that you mailed him a copy.
People get really worked up about that line on the form.

I just sent my 3rd renewal in, 9 years. I have never personally heard of anybody being audited by the BATF. I have read a very few posts, and they were all positive. No big deal. Unlike an 01 Dealer, they will call first to arrange a time. Some have even been told just to stop by the office with their bound book. If they do want to look at your guns, all they will want to see is the ones entered in your book.

 

[lilguy]

Do I need to be finger printed?

 

[Cheapshooter]

Do I need to be finger printed?

No. You're making WAY too much out of this. Sound a little paranoid to me.
1. Get the form
2. Read and follow the instructions.
3. Mail the form with check or M.O. for $30 to BATF, and copy of completed form to CLEO
And if you aren't a BG, Viola!! in a few weeks you have a class 03 FFL

 

[Aguila Blanca]

If I already own a couple of mil-surp, C&R qualifying rifles but don't yet have a C&R license, I am unclear as to what has to be done with/about the pre-license acquisitions when I get a C&R license. Do I need to enter previously-owned C&R firearms in the bound book, or do I enter only those acquired since getting the license?

 

[Cheapshooter]

If I already own a couple of mil-surp, C&R qualifying rifles but don't yet have a C&R license,

No, only C&R firearms you acquired while you are licensed. It does require you to enter all C&R firearms you acquire while licensed though. Even if you did not use the license to acquire the gun. Such as a private sale from an individual, a gift, or inheritance. Some gun shops don't want to recognize a C&R license either. Also I would imagine at Cabela's or Bas Pro, the kid at the gun counter that was working in the camping dept. last month wouldn't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[lilguy]

Do I call my local ATF office for a form? I just applied for a Florida/Utah CC permit. Any issue with multiple BG checks in a short period of time?

My brother is a local CLEO, knows mine well. Says I will have no issue with him.

 

[Cheapshooter]

Again, 1,2,3. 1. Print. 2. Read, follow instructions, fill ouit. 3. Mail. Done.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5310-16-notice.html
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5310-16.pdf
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf

 

[Tidewater_Kid]

Go here and spend some time. Lots of questions answered.

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73670

TK

 

[kilimanjaro]

Once you have a 03FFL, all the C&R firearms you purchase after date of issue should be entered into your inventory 'book'. A bound book is not required, but a great system. Any C&R firearms you owned prior to date of issue should be entered into the inventory book when and if you sell it. The others owned prior to date of issue need not be entered, if they are not sold by you.

BATFE can perform an inspection if they decide to do so, what they will inspect is your inventory book, and they will want to see the firearms on the inventory. You should have the C&R collection outside of the safe and laid out for inspection. Other firearms not part of the collection can be locked up in your safe or stored elsewhere in the house during the inspection.

The BATFE isn't interested in your other stuff, they have legal obligation to inspect your collection to determine you are legitimate and not in the business of selling the stuff off like a dealer. Occaisonal sales to enhance your collection are permitted.

Study the rules, adhere to them, and should be no concerns at all. If you are paranoid about gun-grabbing gov't intrusiveness, relax, get the license, and enjoy it. The more licensees, the better, it shows Congress the program is successful and not to be monkeyed with by those who don't like the concept.