License Plate Readers & Gun Shows

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BarryLee

New member
The ACLU is reporting on a plan by the DEA and BATFE to use license plate readers to monitor attendees at local gun shows. The DEA is stating that this was only a proposal and was never actually implemented. The ACLU states that checking random license plates against a “hot sheet” is acceptable as long as the data of innocent drivers is not retained. However, collecting data on citizens who are engaged in lawful activity like attending a gun show is unacceptable.

So, what do you think? Do you believe them when they state that they aren’t collecting data on gun show attendees?

https://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty-national-security/dea-planned-monitor-gun-show-attendees-license-plate-r
 
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Shooter2675

New member
Well when you think of thhave whole NSA thing and the usual government, I don't trust them one bit. It almost makes me think of this one app I saw on TV one time, it gives you the opportunity to record neighbors or people who own guns then anyone can see who owns guns. I mean I know lots of people who also own guns and I have neighbors who own guns but I don't want everywhere near me to know I or someone else around me has guns.

John
 
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Tom Servo

Staff
First of all, who gets to use these LPR's, and is there any oversight?

Second, why is the DEA involved with gun shows?
 
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ballardw

New member
Kind of wonder what DEA has to do with this at all.

And many of our local shows are collocated with flea market, car show, rock and gem, garden/flower shows and other activities.
 
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skizzums

New member
great my county just got approved for 5 more to add to the 8 they already had. we are a pretty small town, and I am sure they wont stop until every patrol car has one. the are putting out propaganda articles in the local rag about how they help police by automatically matching license plates to the GBI crime center and also felony narcotics sumthing or another. of course they mention nothing about how they save the locations of every license plate they read and they can build a map of any license plate they want by putting together the info of all the readers that your car has passed by. I wouldn't be suprisd if any state or federal agency could gain access to those records whenever they wanted, and the fact that we are trying to get rules put into place to only keep record for 30 days is getting fought on every level. why do they feel it's important to keep these records permanently?

I am not worried, I know it is just to help locate my car if it is stolen or to keep drugs out of my child's hands....c'mon, think of the children
 
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BarryLee

New member
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speedrrracer

New member
They were probably just doing some prep work for Fast and Furious.


LA Times said:
Fast and Furious was a failed gun-tracking operation run out of the ATF’s Phoenix field office from fall 2009 until January 2011.
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ACLU blog said:
The April 2009 email states that “DEA Phoenix Division Office is working closely with ATF on attacking the guns going to [redacted] and the gun shows, to include programs/operation with LPRs at the gun shows.
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carguychris

New member
Maybe I'll start riding my bike to gun shows.

Might make it hard to buy those 880rd cases of Russian surplus ammo though. :rolleyes:
 
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CowTowner

New member
Maybe I'll start riding my bike to gun shows.

Might make it hard to buy those 880rd cases of Russian surplus ammo though.
Click to expand...

Maybe a backpack? Surplus ALICE packs are around and should handle the weight and size of a couple of cans. ;)
As for an entire case? A pack frame and ye olde bungie cords should do the job.

It seems some law enforcement agencies are determined to compile lists of guns owners no matter what.
 
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zach_

New member
The local police in many areas were restricted from using plate readers to scan for uninsured vehicles/outstanding warrants/stolen vehicles...... I wonder when they actually use the readers. Seems like a good idea to me. I do not like tracking gun show parking lots for anything other than criminals though.
 
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hartcreek

Moderator
There are two types of readers. One is optical the other reads the chip in your lisence plate. If you do not like broadcasting every place you go you can use magnetic pulses to fry the chip.....nothing illeagal about doing that as the plate still is readable with the other type of reader or by sight. I only have one vehicle with a chip in the plate....doesnt matter to me.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
A parking lot for a gun show venue isn't a public highway, is it? Does the law require a license plate to operate a vehicle on private property?
 
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HiBC

New member
Any number of things are possible.
The DEA is primarily about drugs.
As has been discussed here already,at length,it does not matter what your state laws are,in every state,marijuana is a Federal controlled substance.
It is felony # 1 to lie on a 4473 about "I am not an unlawfuluser of...marijuana or any other controlled substance"

It is felony # 2 to possess or transfer firearms or ammunition as a "prohibited person"

Any use of pot,medical or "legal" or otherwise within the last year or so makes you a prohibited person.

Might it be having a medpot card,or your plate read outside a legal pot shop,or any other means the DEA could get you in a "pot user" database will be cross referenced to a database of gun show plates?
Might it be they will wait with all this data,as long as the fish are swimming into the net?

I just don't know.Sounds crazy huh?

Oh,one more part of that.If they get around to pulling in the net...heck,tell you what...we have a deal for you!!Give us your guns,sign here,you can never own a gun again,...and we will get rid of this one prison term...Oh,and,for a couple of names,the other prison term goes away..How about it?

Nah,nah....forget that.Our administration does not think that way....
 
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jason75979

New member
"Any use of pot,medical or "legal" or otherwise within the last year or so makes you a prohibited person."

So, what is the cutoff timeframe to be considered a "user"?
Some, as rambunctious teens do, experimented with things in our teen years only to later grow up and abandon them for a more " mature" lifestyle.
Their ambiguity leaves the door open for many to be considered disqualified depending upon their time frames.
 
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HiBC

New member
It will take some searching and reading,but if you use the search function this topic has been well covered.
Some of the STAFF here have posted the law.

Something was mentioned about a year,more or less.

There are drug tests that use hair and nails.My worthless,non-lawyer opinion would suggest if my hair and nails pass a drug test I have some evidence I'm not using.

"I quit last week" is not a reliable plan.

If your med records show a med pot card...Hmmm

My scenario is all speculation.I do not know.

I live in Colorado.I was not tempted to take advantage of the "legal" status A)I already have enough bad habits and B)I prefer to keep my 2nd Ammendment Right as secure as possible .Discretionary prosecution can become a nightmare.I prefer to not be vulnerable.

I bring this topic up just so folks can think about their choices.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
Jason75979 said:
"Any use of pot,medical or "legal" or otherwise within the last year or so makes you a prohibited person."

So, what is the cutoff timeframe to be considered a "user"?
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Technically, the cut-off is "now." The question on the 4473 is:

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
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And the corresponding instruction is:

Question 11.b. - 11.l. Definition of Prohibited Person: Generally, 18 U.S.C. § 922 prohibits the shipment, transportation, receipt, or possession in or affecting interstate commerce of a firearm by one who: has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence; has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year (this does not include State misdemeanors punishable by imprisonment of two years or less); is a fugitive from justice; is an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance; has been adjudicated mentally defective or has been committed to a mental institution; has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; has renounced his or her U.S. citizenship; is an alien illegally in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa; or is subject to certain restraining orders. Furthermore, section 922 prohibits the shipment, transportation, or receipt in or affecting interstate commerce of a firearm by one who is under indictment or information for a felony, or any other crime, punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
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Since marijuana is illegal under federal law, and the 4473 is a federal form, any use is unlawful use. "Is" is present tense, which means now. However, I'm sure it doesn't mean you have a roach between your lips at the exact second you check that box. If you smoke one reefer a day, or even one a week, on a regular basis -- you're a user.

If you used to use MJ and you quit ... you need to be thinking about how you can prove you quit if you're ever asked to prove it.
 
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HiBC

New member
Aguila,I poked around some.This will take you to a thread here at TFL on this topic.See post 81.Frank Ettin is weighing in,and references "one year" as a potential guideline.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539207&highlight=marijuana+prohibited+person&page=4

I was doing a little night shopping at the well known big everything store.
It wasn't real late,but they only had self checkout going on.I hate those things.A manager checked me out.We talked about it.She hates them,too.She explained she can't hire help....because its Colorado and most of the folks who apply fail the company drug test.....Hmmmmmmm.A failed drug test might document "prohibited person"


I have no idea if there is any database of people who have failed drug tests.I just recognize all sorts of data is being compiled on us,bought,sold,and do you read all the fine print on every form or terms of agreement every time you sign or "click here"?

And computers have a tremendous power to sort and personalize that data.
Targeted advertising is an example.I click on a youtube vid and get a Midway ad.

I have no idea if anything will ever happen.I would not have predicted Fast and Furious,either.I was pretty certain the SCOTUS would not uphold forcing us to buy an insurance product.

I'm concerned about executive actions and "I have a pen and a phone",NSA,and a few other things.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
HiBC said:
Aguila,I poked around some.This will take you to a thread here at TFL on this topic.See post 81.Frank Ettin is weighing in,and references "one year" as a potential guideline.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...+person&page=4
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A "potential guideline" is very different from a binding, legal requirement or prohibition. Here's part of what Frank had to say in the thread you cited:

Such use is not limited to the use of drugs on a particular day, or within a matter of days or weeks before, but rather that the unlawful use has occurred recently enough to indicate that the individual is actively engaged in such conduct. A person may be an unlawful current user of a controlled substance even though the substance is not being used at the precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or receives or possesses a firearm. An inference of current use may be drawn from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers the present time,
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I suppose I'm biased, but I don't see that what I wrote is significantly different from what Frank wrote.
 
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