Liability Insurance

[ArmySon]

I've been reading Fighting Smarter by Tom Givens. In the book (excellent btw), he recommends that anybody that packs a firearm should get additional liability insurance. The main reason...

Even if you win the criminal court battle, the civil suite, win or lose, will wipe you out. The cost of the attorney fees for the criminal hearing and civil hearing alone is ridiculously expensive. Compound that with the possibility of losing the civil suite (even if you're found innocent in the criminal hearings..a la OJ Simpson), how many people have the funds to pay the suite?

Yes I know, you were justified in your shooting. Yes I know, self-defense is your God given right. I completely agree with those arguments and support them 100%. However, you’ll need more then that to win in court.

So any of ya have liability insurance?

 

[Powermwt]

2 million as a certificate to the local PD. MWT

 

[M1911]

$3,000,000 umbrella coverage which will cover me if I legally use deadly force for self defense. I tried to get $5,000,000, but the agent said they didn't have any standard umbrella policies that big.

M1911

 

[banjobart]

Make sure your Liability coverage is at least a million. Typically a homeowners policy is less but can be increased for a few more dollars per year.

What this does is get a good lawyer working for you. If the insurance company stands to lose a million or two they will fight hard to avoid paying this claim. If they just stand to lose only a hundred thousand they may hang you out to dry and pay the claim.

 

[J. Williams]

Help in understanding - what types of policies are these? Do you just call your agent and explain what you want or are there riders to the home owners insurance you currently have? How's the best way to ask about it?

 

[Bruegger]

Yes.

Just ask your agent about an "umbrella" policy on top of your liability coverage on the homeowners insurance.

They're surprisingly cheap for most people. Much higher if you are a landlord or run a daycare in your home.

 

[Cosmoline]

A good idea, though there are a few points to consider:

--Nothing attracts plaintiffs more reliably than liability insurance. Trial lawyers live off the stuff. If the "victim" finds out you've got half a million or a million in coverage, EXPECT to get sued, no matter what the facts are.

--If there is a third party suit, it will be YOU who gets sued, not the carrier.

--If you're dirt poor anyway, pulling out your pockets may prove a more effective defense. Liability insurance is typically for those with assets to protect.

--READ THE POLICY CAREFULLY!! Does it cover "intentional" acts? Does it cover criminal prosecutions? It may not do either. In many states it may not even be legal to cover these risks. More relevant in most cases, does it cover or exclude "reckless" acts or "punitive damages"? Any shooting suit is likely to give rise to a nice punis claim, and if the coverage doesn't extend that far you're looking at potentially enormous exposure.

 

[Ledbetter]

As a lawyer . . .

let me state that GRH makes some very good points.

 

[Bruegger]

Of course you need to read the policy so you know what it covers, but that doesn't mean you don't need liability insurance if you have any assets of significance (such as a home).

If you have assets and no insurance, the other guy's attorney will happily take your home, your car, boat, mules & donkeys, etc instead of your insurance company's $$$.

Even if you don't have any money or assets NOW, judgments are good for 10 years or more, and can be renewed, so you won't be able to own a home, car etc without fearing that the "victim" will have it seized and sold to pay the judgment.

If your insurance company won't settle with the guy (99% of lawsuits settle), then THEY have to take over the defense of the case. Assuming you have the applicable coverage, that is.

Also, if you get to trial, a lawyer can't mention that you have insurance coverage, or the amount of that coverage, to the jury.

 

[Drundel]

GRH and Ledbetter:

Good words of advise. One thing though, how does the plaintiffs attorney know you have the extra insurance?

I just graduated college and don't have much but I don't want to loose it and am taking my CHL on the 20th. Lets say there is a civil suit alleging wrongful death. Can't you counter sue on something claiming stress or something?

Thanks

 

[Tshoes]

Putting firearms suits aside...........

Most inurance companes for a hundred or so extra a year, will float you a 1 Mil policy for Gen Liability.
This will cover any suit brought against you for whatever reason........( not in total $$, but for SOME protection).
Firearms related or not......
Path of least resistance in play here.
Wherever there is $$$ the Lawyers will go.
Asking for MORE, at least in Texas, will get you into some Q & A, you might just as soon forget......
Like CANCELLATION.......
For what is cost's, blanket liability for homeowners is not an option anymore.....it's a must do.

 

[croyance]

Are there prefered insurance carriers? Any that are more firearms sympathetic/knowledgable? At the very least, I prefer to do buisness with those who do not donate large sums against our claus.

I assume that I can add this to renter's insurance?

 

[The Rock]

I'm just going interject a bit of black humor into this thread, make a quick point, and be on my way..

Black Humor: Think S3.

An idea to think of would be to research self-defense items and talk to the local prosecutor's office. If you can see which way the wind blows, you might be causing yourself undue stress by worrying about insurance and whatnot.

Anyway, YMMV...

TR

 

[Good Guy]

Originally posted by Drundel:

One thing though, how does the plaintiffs attorney know you have the extra insurance?

The one time I was sued (homeowners policy, not gun related) there was a detailed questionaire submitted by the defendant's attorney that was MANDATORY to fill out, including any/all policies and their liability limits. Before you're actually technically served and sued though, I don't think anyone will know what type of coverage you have unless you mistakenly tell them.

 

[WYO]

I seriously doubt that anyone will find a general homeowner's liability policy that provides coverage against intentional acts. Even where policies do not protect you from your own intentional acts, however, insurance companies in many states will be required to hire an attorney to represent you even if they intend to make a defense that the policy does not cover you. It's better than nothing, but it's not the same as paying your own lawyer a couple of hundred bucks per hour to defend you. Check with your insurance agent and an attorney in your state as to the intentional acts exclusion.

Many plaintiff's lawyers, realizing the intentional act exclusion to policies, will attempt to make the incident seem like an accident rather than an intentional act, so that there will be coverage if they succeed in their theory. If they prove it's an intentional act rather than an accident, they have to enforce the judgment against your assets rather than against the insurance company.

If you take the position that you intentionally shot someone in self defense, in many states the insurance company is off the hook, because you have pleaded an "intentional act." Again, check with a lawyer in your own state.

 

[mikey357]

Fascinating--AND thought-provoking--Topic...we have a two-million-dollar "Umbrella" policy...need to check on the "intentional acts" thing....mikey357