Lever action 357 mag question

[Radny97]

So I've been working on developing a hot flat shooting load for my 357 mag Rossi 92 with a 20 inch barrel. The idea was to develop an accurate load out to 150 yards with open sights where I wouldn't really have to worry about hold over or bullet drop and which would be good for mid-size game (deer). I decided to try a 125 grain bullet for the flatter trajectory and chose Hornady XTPs since they are cheap and easy to find. Initial results were encouraging. Using a stiff load of H110 I was able to get consistent chrono readings averaging 2353 fps. So far so good. Before moving on to fine tuning for accuracy I decided to shoot a round into some water jugs to see how the XTP would expand. The results were disappointing. It only went through two water jugs. It also badly bent the third jug and badly bent the table top. The jugs completely exploded. So did the bullet. It essentially disintegrated. Just a few fragments here and there to be found. That won't be ideal performance on a deer. Bullet fragmentation plus limited penetration is a no-go. So I'm running the XTP too fast for it's design.
Here's my question:
Can I find a soft nose jacketed 125 grain bullet that will perform well at 2353 fps? Or should I go with a 158 grain bullet and forget the flat trajectory thing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jersurf101]

I went through this with my 16 inch barreled Rossi. I settled on the Hornady xtpfp. It has a more shallow cavity that is a tougher bullet construction. The 158 xtpfp's have done well for me too, although I am using Alliant 2400 to push them. Good luck and have fun with your rifle!

 

[griz]

Hornady makes a 125 gr flat point in their XTP line. Admittedly I'm not going to use a 357 at 150 yards, but for me that's too light for deer. I would stick with the 158 gr even if they don't shoot as flat.

Edit: I see I was typing too slowly. Pretty much the same advice.

 

[mehavey]

A 158-160gr LRNFP starting in a rifle at....

1,700fps - Point Blank ±2.5" out to 150
1,600fps - Point Blank ±3.0" out to 150

That's easily Minute of ground squirrel, much less minute of Whitetail chest/lung/heart,
and both are low-mid 20ksi loads.

Stick with the heavy bullet.

 

[Radny97]

I'll load a 158 grain if I have to. Heaven knows I've got plenty sitting around.
But I've killed plenty of mulies and elk with a 130 grain .270win bullet going 2950fps. So I know a 125 grain bullet can kill a whitetail no problem. And 2353fps is more than enough speed to do it. I'm just wondering if there is a 125 grain bullet out there that is constructed tough enough to perform reliably at more than 2350fps like other rifle bullets do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...for the flatter trajectory..." That's more about velocity than bullet weight.
However, 2353 FPS indicates an over maxload for a 125 and H110. Out of an 18.5" rifle barrel. Hodgdon just happened to use an XTP for their tests too. The 1.5" might increase velocity by 77 FPS though.
An XTP is not a rifle bullet though. No comparison to a 130 grain .270. Your 130 grain .270 starts out at ~ 3,200 fps out of a 24" barrel and is still going ~ 2,778 fps at 200 yards with 2,228 ft-lbs. of energy left. Ain't the same thing and is not comparable to a 125 out of a 20" .357.
Anyway, the issue is more about the ballistics, not expansion. A 125 doesn't have the energy at 150 yards. Hornady doesn't recommend 'em for deer sized game at all. 140's and up according to their web site. A 140 sighted in at 50 yards out of an 18" barreled rifle will drop 5.3" at 150 with only 522 ft-lbs. of remaining energy.

 

[Radny97]

Nothing wrong with over max loads if you know what you're doing. (Which I do). 92 is a strong action (I have the exact same rifle in 454 Casull) I'm using a slow burning powder not known for pressure spikes and these rounds are well labeled and not finding their way into my wheel guns. I didn't describe the details of the load intentionally, but I don't have any over pressure signs.
Just looking for suggestions on a tougher 125 grain bullet than the XTP. If no one knows of any I'll buy a few different brands and do my own testing. Thanks though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[44 AMP]

a 125 grain bullet can kill a whitetail no problem. And 2353fps is more than enough speed to do it.

2353fps is too much speed, as you saw in the water jugs.

125gr .357 bullets are PISTOL bullets, and designed to give the expected expansion at pistol speeds. Add another 500+ fps and they are being overdriven, and act like varmint bullets when they hit. (explosive expansion)

You can see the exact same thing when you shoot a .30-30 bullet at .300 Magnum speeds, or a .45-70 bullet at 458 Win mag speeds. They just are not built to hold together at those increased velocities.

I think the best thing to do in your search is to call various bullet makers, and ask if they have a bullet in the weight & caliber that will hold together (give controlled expansion) at the speed you are shooting.

2353 FPS indicates an over maxload for a 125 and H110. Out of an 18.5" rifle barrel.

Indicates, but does not PROVE.

Velocity alone only proves velocity. Sometimes, the "stars line up" and a specific barrel will produce velocity numbers higher than average, at normal pressures. Sometimes, the stars line up the other way, and specific barrel can show speeds LOWER than average at normal pressures, as well.

 

[Chainsaw.]

I dont even think you meed a tougher bullet, just a different bullet. As stated before Id try a jacketed flat point at those speeds. You will get expansion but not the explosivness you're seeing out of the xtp. Jacket separation could be an issue and it may shed to much lead for your liking.

Next I would try a medium (not to hard!) Cast lead bullet. You can get a nice balance of expansion and penetration.

 

[briandg]

Your .357 @ 150 yards isn't even remotely comparable to that .270, just delete that thought completely. In fact, out at 100+ yards, your load and velocity figures are an improvement over a 9mm pistol, and about equal to a forty, both at close range.

I wouldn't shoot a deer with a 125 +p nine, or a forty.

I believe that this rifle with 158 grain bullets (bonded) is adequate for light deer at fifty or so yards, but really, that combination is useless for bigger game or longer ranges. Admit it, you aren't likely to get multiple rounds in damaging places and a single round is almost certainly not going to drop a deer without a bit to the cns.

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that it will work. There is no bullet that can turn this carbine into a .270.

Ask yourself. Why was the 38-40 or 32-20 replaced by such things as the 30-30 and 7x57?

 

[44 AMP]

Why was the 38-40 or 32-20 replaced by such things as the 30-30 and 7x57?

Because the .38-40 and .32-20 were black powder PISTOL rounds (though also chambered in lever action carbines), and the 7x57mm and .30-30 are rifle rounds, delivering much greater power and usable range.