I picked up a couple of small bubble levels the other day. Today I checked five scoped rifles to see if the cross hairs were level. Only one of the five was close and the others were off a little more. They all LOOKED to be level. If the longest shot you make is 40 yds during deer season exactly level is not a big deal. But at 100 - 200 and out it can make a big difference in best accuracy.
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Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Granted I have many decades of practice, but I must have a pretty good ability with my eyeball. Good enough to have grouped just where I should have on my 500-yard range.
(Brag, brag, brag...)
But use whatever helps in that eternal effort toward "just right".
(Brag, brag, brag...)
But use whatever helps in that eternal effort toward "just right".
Just curious. How do you assure the rifle is in a "perfect" position, i.e., a line drawn vertically through the buttstock would be "plumb", that is, perfectly vertical. If it is not perfectly vertical, it would seem that the vertical cross hair relative to the rifle would not be perfectly vertical. Years ago I tried to adjust my scopes so the cross hairs were perfectly vertical and horizontal relative to the stock and action but I was never certain they were precisely "correct". I made these adjustment with the rifles on bench rest sand bags.
Shooting your distance wouldn't make a difference, for hunting at your distance you could hang a line, shoulder your rifle, line up your vertical line in your scope to the hanging line or a level vertical post. Wheeler sells a scope leveling kit. When shooing different distances from100 to 1000 yards a level setup is a must. If not , you will be off to the right or left & low. Also the scope could have a canted redical, thats when your scope crosshairs are level but your scope looks cocked off center.
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math teacher
New member
Place the rifle in a padded vice and use a level across the recoil pad screw holes or the butt plate screws to get the stock vertical. Then turn the scope so that the vertical cross hair matches. Then the horizontal cross hair should be level, unless of course the stock is screwed up. Most people cant their rifles, so the cross hairs wind up canted. I have had several people tell me that the scopes I mount for them are canted, so I stick the rifle in a vice, square the stock with a level, and ask them which way the scope should be turned. They can see that the scope is level, but they are still sure something is wrong. One friend then canted his scope badly because that is the way he shoots. The windage will only be right at the sight-in distance and he wonders why his scope doesn't track correctly.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Ignorant question: As long as the center of the crosshairs is in the correct location, "What difference does it make?"
In holdover or Kentucky windage, don't you go by the location of that center point with respect to the target?
Sure, it matters if you change the setting from the sight-in setup to a different distance, but if you're a "set it and forget it" shooter, it shouldn't matter.
In holdover or Kentucky windage, don't you go by the location of that center point with respect to the target?
Sure, it matters if you change the setting from the sight-in setup to a different distance, but if you're a "set it and forget it" shooter, it shouldn't matter.
Gunplummer
New member
I doubt any of my scoped rifles would pass that test. I hold a rifle the way it fits me naturally, not according to somebody's specs.
g.willikers
New member
What if the center of the crosshair isn't in the center of the scope?
Wouldn't it be moving in an elliptical motion as the gun is rotated, even a little?
reynolds357
New member
It is hard to get a scope mounted perfectly level. I have found that significant errors can be made even using levels. I usually use a cross hair square on bolt action rifles. Sometimes it will work with other actions, but not usually.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
g.willikers, that would only matter if the rifle were canted--which always results in horizontal dispersion.
I'm willing to bet the VAST majority of scopes aren't truly level. Especially deer rifles. I have always eyballed it until it's where I want it, and have never had a problem with a good rifle shooting accurately.
I'm sure on a precision long-range rifle it matters, but on the vast majority under-500 yards-there won't be much of an issue with it.
We tend to overthink things sometimes.
I'm sure on a precision long-range rifle it matters, but on the vast majority under-500 yards-there won't be much of an issue with it.
We tend to overthink things sometimes.
This is one of those "yes..but" answers. Yes the statement above is correct, BUT whether or not the dispersion has any meaningful impact on accuracy.
A canted rifle is of no concern as long as the shooter has good data on what adjustments need to be made for distance. At a High Power match on the 200 yard line nearly all the shooters cant the rifle, and many also cant the rifle in the seated position at 300.
An AR-15 with service rifle sight is about 2.5 inches above bore. The horizontal effect can be estimated by dispersion = 2.5*SIN(angle). So for three degrees of cant you are looking at 0.13" of horizontal dispersion. For small angles there is small dispersion, for large angles there is large dispersion.
In High Power, the X ring is a full minute, and the ten ring two minutes, a tenth of a minute in horizontal dispersion is meaningless most of the time, especially if the shooter knows the sight adjustments to make because they have good dope on their load. So canting the rifle to make it easier to shoot can, and does, result in higher scores in that discipline.
For the 1,000 yard benchrest club, three degrees of cant isn't a good thing at all. The shooter to rifle contact is minimized, so having things perfectly aligned horizontally is a good thing for repeating performance.
Jimro
There is a vid on youtube of a guy shooting long range groups (1000yds?) with both a level scope and a slightly off level scope. The difference only matteres when dialing in different elevation adjustments. Off level will result in the group moving laterally as well as in elevation.
Even so, in this vid he adjusts the off level scope out to 1000yds and only gets about a 6" change (if i remember correctly). Certainly enough to lose a match, but not enough to matter to the typical deer hunter and hunting distances.
Even so, in this vid he adjusts the off level scope out to 1000yds and only gets about a 6" change (if i remember correctly). Certainly enough to lose a match, but not enough to matter to the typical deer hunter and hunting distances.
I like being able to use vertical adjustments without shooting in what the horizontal change is at further distances. Have actually had more of a problem with open adjustable sights, wish they would square/line em up better.
Very good points about how everyone may see/line up sights differently.
Very good points about how everyone may see/line up sights differently.