Let's talk about the Garand

chris in va

New member
I've been wanting one of these for a number of years and promised myself to get one from the CMP this summer.

Right now I cast lead boolits for 9mm and 45acp, but I think it would be prudent to just get FMJ for the rifle. What I'd like to know is how easy/difficult it is to reload for the 30'06 'Garand version'. What sort of powder works best, bullet types, and (don't laugh) can I use my Lee Hand Press.

Any information would be appreciated. I can only afford the 'service grade' for around $600 so that's what I'll be working with.
 
The main trick with the Garand is not to use powder that is slow. Slow powders create higher muzzle pressures, and that can bend the operating rod.

The Hornady manual has a separate section for Garand loads, but a lot of us have recipes. I would say that IMR 4064 has a well-deserved reputation for producing accuracy with this rifle. It is a little bulkier than some, but works well. You can use something as fast as IMR 3031 with if for 150 grain bullets. For the 168 and 175 grain match bullets it will do better with either IMR 4895 or H4895 or the IMR 4064 I already mentioned. Some are using Varget, but see my note below.

CCI makes a special large rifle primer for these guns and the M14 style guns called the #34. It is harder than commercial primers. I've not had a problem with standard commercial primers, but board member Slamfire sure has. If you can find some, it's probably worth the extra safety margin.

Commercial brass is not as tough as Lake City military brass, and the semi-auto can yank hard on brass and bend rims. For that reason, it's a good idea, if you are not firing in a match that prohibits it, to get one of the adjustable vented gas cylinder plugs. These allow extra pressure to be bled out of the gas cylinder, sparing the op-rod (op-rods are in short supply), and it can be tweaked until the brass falls right near the shooter instead of somewhere in the next county. That means it is being easier on the brass.

I've had good luck in the past with Remington brass having similar capacity to Lake City, but haven't had occasion to buy current stock.

Some will advise you to get a small base die. You may need it if you are sizing brass fired in another gun for the first time. Usually, once you have fired a case in your gun, the chamber fit will allow a standard die to resize it adequately. I would, however, measure the new brass diameters at the shoulder and about a quarter inch forward of the head and also the head to shoulder headspace length with a tool like the RCBS precision mic or the Hornady or Sinclair case comparators that adapt your calipers to the task. Make sure all these dimensions go back at least 0.002" after you've finished sizing.

If you buy from the CMP the gun will have been inspected to ensure it is within gauge tolerances. That's a good choice and will reduce the chance of a slamfire occurring.

For 150 grain bullets, I find the Hornady FMJ's to be the most economical ones that produce decent accuracy. For the full 600 yard course, I use the Sierra 175 grain MatchKing. You can use it to mimic the last M72 load when assembled using a CCI #34 primer and 46.5 grains of IMR 4895, though I use 46.6 grains of IMR 4064 instead because it gives better case fill and lower port pressure, and seated to 3.267" in either Remington or Lake City cases.
 
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rg1

New member
A service grade Garand will be a good choice. Nothing difficult about reloading for the Garand. Standard 30-06 dies. Powders between the burn rates of IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 for the gas system of the Garand. Slower powders can and will bend your op rod and damage your rifle. I shoot IMR 4895 with mil-surplus 150 gr-FB FMJ bullets. Bullets between 150-168 grains work best. I suggest a case gauge to check your fired brass and to adjust your full-length sizing die to only push the shoulder back a specified amount. The Garands and other semi-autos often have headspace on the long side of specs. Either an RCBS Precision Mic or Hornady's Headspace gauge set works well.
Here's a couple places that have M2 150 fmj-fb bullets that were originally loaded for Garands:
http://polygunbag.com/bullets.html
http://wideners.com/itemview.cfm?startrow=13&dir=278|281|727
I'd try to go ahead and order some of these 150gr M2 fmj-fb bullets now as they can disappear from the market.
A couple good articles:
http://www.alabamaservicerifleteam.com/id17.html
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm
 

dmazur

New member
...can I use my Lee Hand Press?

I don't own a Lee Hand Press, so I'm guessing with this answer, plus cheating by looking up some dimensions on line.

I found a spec that says the Lee Hand Press has 3.50" of clearance. This should not present a problem with the resizing die (other than a FL resizing die may require the hand strength of a gorilla), but there may be problems with the bullet seating die. If you can "tip in" the bullet above the case, it might work. For direct horizontal clearance, I use around 3.75" of the 4.00" available on my press, with Hornady 150gr FMJBT's. Military M2 150gr bullets are even longer.

So, those are the concerns - 1. Sufficient hand strength to do full-length resizing, and 2. Sufficient clearance for bullet seating.

I guess my opinion would be "maybe"... :)

+1 on getting an adjustable gas plug, to save your op-rod and receiver, regardless of what powder you choose.
 

Headgear

New member
Hey Chris!

Go for it. If you haven't shot one yet, you're in for a treat. I just spent about 2k on a new 308 CZ550 and optics because I've always wanted to try shooting long. The first week at the range with it we met a guy shooting a Garand. Long story short, two weeks later my brother and I went up to the north store and got two of the Greek returns. I've hardly shot the CZ since. You say you want to get "ONE" this summer. I'll bet you end up with more. Two or three weeks ago I went to the Louisville show and came home with #2. A nice 44 correct grade. Another fine addiction I've gotten myself into! I'm afraid to see where it will end up.

I've loaded a couple thousand rounds since we got them and like was mentioned, the Hornady manual has a section specific to Garands. I've been using 168 BTHP and 44.5 gr of IMR4895 just to stay on the safe side and shooting three inch groups at 100 yards from a bench rest. I didn't expect that. I can't wait till it dries up a little to try prone.

I was on the market a few months ago for a new single stroke press and was told to check out the Forester. I'm glad I did now. The priming seating system is very accurate. I don't think there is any chance to get a high primer provided the press is cycled completely. Hopefully this helps eliminate one slam fire scenario. If you are looking for another press, check that one out.

Good Luck! I hope you end up with many fine pieces of history.
 

LeadHead

New member
I have two from CMP. The second one is now a .308 . These were bought many years ago. The first ( bought very early in the program )was in much better shape and had all correct #'s. Both were Danish issued.
 

Tim R

New member
Reloading for the M-1 is straight foreward. Use powders no faster than IMR 4064 and you will never have a problem.

You do have to be careful not to have any high primers but this is no different than loading for a M-14/M-1A or M-16/AR-15.

I have used CCI Large rifle primers or CCI BR primers since 1987 when I got my first DCM M-1.

I got in on the lastest CMP service grade Winchesters that sold out in about a week. It took about 3 weeks from order submission to having the Winny in my hands. It's not alot of Winny as it has Springer, HRA and IHC parts. Nice thing was though they put a new stock on it.

A couple of years ago I bought a stock from E-gun parts and they set me a Winny stock. It has a stamp on the side with a faint but clear WRA. I'm not sure how I rated this but I was not going to argue. I put the stock on a service grade Springer. The Springer is now sporting the new stock with the Winny having the Winny stock. I have not shot the Winny yet but it has a shiny bore, no junk in it and the rifle looks good. :) The HRA trigger group needs to be tuned up a bit. The barrel is a Springer made on 12/52.
 

Slamfire

New member
What I'd like to know is how easy/difficult it is to reload for the 30'06 'Garand version'. What sort of powder works best, bullet types, and (don't laugh) can I use my Lee Hand Press.

Let me recommend a load of 46 to 47.5 grains IMR 4895 with a 150 grain bullet.

The heaviest bullet the military used was the 174 FMJBT. Use of heavier bullets is a case of diminishing returns: You have to cut the loads so much, because of the limitations imposed by the gas system, heavier bullets are a waste of time and money.

My load uses CCI #34 primers, and I had a bunch of WWII cases. The load is appropriate for a Garand.

When you set up your sizing dies, be certain to use a Cartridge case headspace gage and size to gage minimum. Always full length size. Never neck size or partial size or anything other than full length sizing.

Wilsongagebetweengoandnogage308bras.jpg


ReducedWilsongagemeasuringnew308bra.jpg



I use a small base die because my match Garands have standard sized chambers and I do not want an out of battery slamfire. US GI chambers are huge, if you ever rebarrel that rifle with a modern barrel you should small base size cases fired in a GI chamber before running them in a smaller chamber.


Trim your cases.

Clean your primer pockets, preferably size to depth, and hand seat all primers and inspect them. Make sure all primers are below the case head.

Use the least sensitive primers you can find. I use the “mil spec CCI#34”, but never ever use Federals. Federals are most sensitive primer on the market and I can post account after account of Garand slamfires with Federal primers.

Use a powder in the IMR 4895 burn rate. Other excellent powders are H4895 and AA2495. AA2495 is Accurate Arms 4895 copy. Stupidly they call it 2495 and confuse everyone. If you like a ball powder try AA2520 as it has the pressure curve, grain for grain, as IMR 4895/AA2495.

Seat your bullet LT 3.30”. Which is magazine length.

Always use a SLED if firing single shot.

Code:
[SIZE="3"]M1 Garand  5 827 XXX 	All original all matching parts				
								
								
150 gr Sierra Match HPBT 47.5 IMR 4895 CCI#34 190 ≤ WWII ≤ 195	24 Mar 04	
		 			OAL 3.290"	T= 70 ° F	
								
Ave Vel =	2619						
Std Dev =	28							
ES =	101							
Low =	2559							
High =	2660							
N =	16							
								
								
								
								
 M1 Garand  5 925 XXX 		rack grade 		
								
								
								
150 gr Sierra Match HPBT 47.5 IMR 4895 CCI#34 190 ≤ WWII ≤ 195	24 Mar 04	
		 			OAL 3.30"	T= 70 ° F	
								
Ave Vel =	2630						
Std Dev =	33							
ES =	109							
Low =	2580							
High =	2689							
N =	16							
								
[/SIZE]
 
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SteveS762

New member
The Accurate powder manual also has load data for Garands and M1A's.
They like 2495 in both since it is very close to H4895 or IMR 4895 in burning rate.
 

Tim R

New member
I just read my post, #7 and found a mistake.


Use powders no faster than IMR 4064 and you will never have a problem.
I meant to say Use powders no slower than IMR 4064 and you will never have a problem.
 
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