LEOS constantly touching weapons, Is it Legal, is it policy or is it training?

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BGutzman

New member
The Canton PD thing really got me thinking about what I have seen LEOs as a group commonly do in the past two years. The one thing I recall as a constant personal observation is that many, heck almost all LEOS I see seem to clutch and grasp their sidearm almost continually even in situations where they are just standing around not interacting with anyone nor are they even close to others. (The weapons stay holstered but they continue to grip the weapon)

(I dont want this to become a PD or LEO bashing fest so please respect that I want to keep this thread open for honest opinions on the question asked not all the other issues)

For myself I often see this as a brandishing almost threatening action intended to assert authority but done so without conscious though. I have also heard some members on this forum say that it may be due to weapon retention training and I can see that too (I am not a LEO and my weapon retention training is limited to a lanyard) but if your not near anyone how does that come into play?

As a CCW carrier I have purposely made a point of not fidgeting with my firearm and not positioning my hand near my weapon as a part of concealment. I could see (rightly or wrongly) a prosecutor trying to make a case of one repositioning a holster slightly during CCW and charging it as brandishing even though no weapon was drawn. How does the officers movements of a exposed holster differ, could it not be considered the same thing?

I get officers are in uniform and are operating under the color of law but regardless I see a lot of hands on weapons. How does this all work or not work and what is legal and what is not?

(Forgive my ignorance on this subject it is not meant to be offensive to any LEO but it is a true observation that has brought me to this question)
 
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4V50 Gary

Staff
Please clarify grasping their sidearm. Holstered or un-holstered?

I use to move my arm back so that my elbow would touch the grip. This served not only as a partial block to access, but also told me that the gun was there.
 
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BlueTrain

New member
Based more on having worn web gear, I'd say that it was a matter of comfort. All of the gadgets officers typically wear on their duty belts these days is a lot of weight and no doubt it becomes uncomfortable. A holster in particular is also a convenient place to put your hand when you can't put it in your pocket (your hand, that is). Besides, given where American police officers always carry their gun, their hand and arm is always going to be touching the holster.
 
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Pbearperry

New member
Cops constantly check to make sure the firearm is locked in properly.Getting in and out of patrol cars,they are always hitting the holster on the car etc.They also grab the gun,or belt to shift it into place.All that gear is not comfortable.
 
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scpapa

New member
^^^^^^ What they said is true.
I have to readjust my gear after getting out of the vehicle.
Sometimes it's just comfortable to rest my hand there.
Rick
 
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Double Naught Spy

New member
Hands on guns is not illegal for law enforcement officers or for CCW folks. While you may not fidget with your holstered gun as a part of trying to remain concealed and unrecognized as a gun carrier, the cops are not under any such obligation or limitation.

If you unfixate (defixate?) off of guns next time you are dealing with the cops, you will notice that they will touch and often handle anything from 3 and 9 o'clock forward. The sheriff's deputy I dealt with last week in regard to some loose cattle spent a lot of time with his hand on his ASP and his holstered radio, sometimes holding onto the holstered ASP almost like it was the horn of a saddle and fidgeting with the volume and squelch on his radio fairly mindlessly despite the lack of radio traffic. He did this at the radio unit on his waist and not up on the mic on his shoulder that also had volume and squech controls.

Did he touch his gun? Yep. He touched it and adjust his whole belt upon getting out of the car, sometimes rested his arm on the pistol like an arm rest. This latter action is what kept blocking me from being able to see what model he was carrying.

I also see a lot of cops resting the off hands/arms on their magazines like an arm rest. This is most commonly done with double stack mags in double mag pouches.
 
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BlueTrain

New member
There used to be an art to twirling a nightstick but I guess that went out with swivel holsters, revolvers and white shirts.
 
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chack

Moderator
All of the above reasons are true, one additional one is that when you're wearing a holster you can't really put your hands in your pockets easily.
 
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Jim March

New member
Well here's an example of full-on assault:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY4R4hERCaA

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY4R4hERCaA[/youtube]

At between 35 and 37 seconds in, both cops put their hands on their guns in a highly threatening manner.

This incident happened only a month after a member of the same department beat the crap out of somebody for pointing a camera, lied and called it "assault on an officer" and got caught when the camera he'd trashed had it's memory card survive:

http://www.pixiq.com/article/las-vegas-cop-beats-man-for-videotaping-him

The next step in documenting these kinds of things is a two-camera solution, with the backup hidden camera streaming live to a server far away. That tech doesn't exist yet in a mass-market consumer device. When Looxcie gets their streaming app for smartphones working (due this month?) we'll have a covert, head-mounted cam that streams over bluetooth to a smartphone, and then the smartphone streams the feed over a 4G cellnet.

And then there's going to be some really amazing videos hit youtube.
 
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BGutzman

New member
A lot of times the gun is holstered and its like the grip is a hand magnet.... I understand the weapon is not drawn but it does seem a bit aggressive at times.

Who knows maybe the office is pulling up his britches...
 
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Glenn Dee

New member
Some police oficers also use a technique called covering from the loaded position. Keeping a subject covered by placing hand on or very near his firearm.

But Yes I did constantly check my gun to be sure it was still there. Were taught from rookie infancy to never LOOSE A GUN!

True story; My first day alone in a radio car. Maybe three months out of the academy. I didnt like the ugly regulation holster. So I being a genious went out and got myself a handy-dandy skelitonized quick draw with a button down strap for retention... Oh yeah... It was a swivel too... man I was lookin cool as a cucumber. So It's my first time in a car... and I'm driving down mitchell ave... And I see red convertable make a right turn through a red... and it's driven by one sweeeet! honey. So I figure... this is where I come in.
Right. I pull her over, put on my fancy 8 point hat. As I step out of the car the holster snap catches on the seat belt, and pop's open. Being a swivel holster it twirls around... as I'm walking to the car the gun spills out to the street. And slides right up to the drivers door of the other car. She looks at the gun,then looks at me... and laughs. Being Mr cool I simply picked it up. and told her to have a nice day... got back in the radio car and drove off. Ever since I've been checking just to make sure it's there. Needless to say I wore a regulation holster ever since. My model 10 still has the road rash from that day over 30 years ago.

Glenn D.
 
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ripnbst

New member
I think you are wayyy overthinking it. For me its the same thing as people who carry a cell phone in a holster and they are constantly jacking with it.

Its just a neurotic thing to constantly adjust it.
 
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Wagonman

New member
I routinely rest my hand on the top of my weapon when speaking to people, but I am invariably bladed so it isn't an issue. It seems everything Cops do is subject of hand wringing. I suppose my having my weapon drawn at every traffic stop would also put certain people into vapor lock never mind the fact it is shielded by my leg and the offender has no idea I have unholstered.
 
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Jim March

New member
Ah. Thanks.

Weird thing is, the incident where the two cops put their hands on their guns against the woman with a camera was in some ways legally "worse". Armed assault as opposed to unarmed.
 
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JerryM

New member
Maybe they are different in NM, but I know a lot of LEOs, and have never seen them fiddling with their guns or touching them.
Jerry
 
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hermannr

New member
I have had very little interaction with the police in the last 64 years or so, but I do not remember any particular "handling" of their weapons other than when they exit their vehicle (good idea as stated earlier), and using the weapon as an arm rest.

My last interaction with the WSP was when I had the fiberglass skid plate on my Audi partly torn loose by snow, and was trying to correct the problem...Fortunately for me the local WSP station commander came by, stopped and gave me a couple of those heavy duty tie wraps they use as handcuffs occationally, so I could strap it back up until I could fix it properly when I got home.

I normally OC, but when I was under the car I didn't want to damage my gun or holster so I had removed them and layed my gun and holster on the seat. He saw it, never said a word except for suggesting how to repair my problem with that skid plate. He also never seemed to be overly concerned with his own carry, just on exiting his vehicle. Super nice guy.
 
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armsmaster270

New member
Simple If your CCWing properly no one should know you have a weapon and won't try to take it. A uniformed officer has it right out where everyone can see it and try to snatch it. I don't care what type of triple lock super safe holster you have it can be got. Therefore for officer safety a lot of officers will rest their arm on the grip, hold the grip, cover the grip, to keep it from being snatched.
 
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jimpeel

New member
Leaning the hand on the firearm is like placing one's hand on one's hip. No biggie. Nothing to see here. Move along.
 
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40caljustice

New member
When I have my gun in holster at the range, I normally rest my hand on it while talking to folks. I think its just a habit. Its like a hand rest and since of security. My worst fear is losing a gun or having one stolen. I'm very mindful of my gun in any situation. Alot of folks say they put their ccw on and forget about it. Not me. I touch it upon exiting my truck, just to be sure my shirt isn't riding up. I tend to keep my forearm close and nonchalantly touch it. Just a habit/security thing.

Next time your in a crowd, check how many folks grab their cellphone case on their hip. Or on a construction job grab their tape measures. Its a habit. "Is it in place?" Touch. "Yep." Or you could carry OC all day around the house and see how many times you make the same movements. Just a thought.
 
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