The thread on the Boston office shooting got me to thinking; can a business owner ban CCW in their building in states that issue CCW permits? This question is both for privately owned businesses and companies that have, say, their headquarters in Massachusets and a branch in Georgia. Meaning can you get legally fired from a company for carrying on the property if you have a permit? I know; if you're doing your CCW right in the first place you shouldn't get busted but this is just a "what if" question.
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Legality of "Gun-Free Workplace"
- Thread starter JWR
- Start date
Caeca Invidia Es
Staff Alumnus
I think this depends entirely on your state laws.
In most cases, if the building is "theirs" yes. Most states allow private property to ban carry. If the building is open to the public (i.e. a store or something like that) some states require that proper signs be posted. However, almost any company can make it part of their requirements for employment. One could properly ask what their liability would be if they did so however. If I worked for a company with such rules in a CCW state and someone shot the place up while I was unarmed I would consider the company liable for failing to provide the protection they have denied me from providing myself.
ellsworthtoohey
New member
Yes, private property owners have the absolute right to control who or what comes on to their property. Your only option is to stay out, or negotiate some kind of agreement.
In most states, you can be fired for violating company policies given that you were informed of them.
Also private property is private property.
However, I strongly disagree with this and think carry in either case should only be banned if one can make a technical case that it is unsafe - like near a MRI.
Also private property is private property.
However, I strongly disagree with this and think carry in either case should only be banned if one can make a technical case that it is unsafe - like near a MRI.
Here in TX, unless it is on the list of no-no places in the law a proper sign MUST be posted. If no sign is posted then it is assumed to be OK for carry. You can still be fired for violating employer policy, but you cant be charged with anything, unless you do something stupid that is.
As much as I hate it, I agree with it. Your employer owns the property and has every right to do with it, on it, to it as they see fit. You agree to work there under the conditions provided for the rewards offered.
As for liability; your employer is NOT liable for any unforseeable incidents. They are liable to provide a safe workplace from the routine dangers offered by your job/environment, but not the out of ordinary and totally unpredictable. Just like you cant sue them if lightninig strikes you. Sadly, there are numerous cases from around the country that support this point of view.
As much as I hate it, I agree with it. Your employer owns the property and has every right to do with it, on it, to it as they see fit. You agree to work there under the conditions provided for the rewards offered.
As for liability; your employer is NOT liable for any unforseeable incidents. They are liable to provide a safe workplace from the routine dangers offered by your job/environment, but not the out of ordinary and totally unpredictable. Just like you cant sue them if lightninig strikes you. Sadly, there are numerous cases from around the country that support this point of view.
here is my companies policy... in Massachusetts
Prohibited Conduct
The Institution will not tolerate threats, threatening conduct, or any other acts of aggression or violence in the workplace.This policy covers employees, postdocs, students, guests, and other individuals who have a relationship with the Institution which enables the Institution to exercise some control over their conduct in places and activities that relate to the Institution’s business (e.g., Trustees, Corporation members, contractors, vendors, customers, etc.)In addition, this policy applies to all work-related settings and activities, whether inside or outside the workplace, and includes time at sea or in the field, business trips and business-related social events.
This list of behaviors, while not inclusive, provides examples of conduct that is prohibited.
Causing physical injury to another person;
Making threatening remarks;
Behaving in an aggressive or hostile manner that creates a reasonable fear of injury to another person or subjects another individual to emotional distress;
Intentionally damaging Institution property or property of another employee;
Possessing (whether or not the individual is licensed) firearms, weapons, and other dangerous or hazardous devices or substances* while on Institution property or while on Institution business (except as expressly authorized on Institution vessels by the Ship Operations Manager);
Committing acts of harassment including, but not limited to, harassment that is based on an individual’s gender, race, color, national origin, age, sexual orientation, religion, disability or any characteristic protected by federal, state or local law.
*Legal, chemical dispensing devices sold commercially for personal protection (i.e. pepper sprays) are not prohibited by this policy provided they are being carried for the express purpose of self-defense and are not being used in an instigative, aggressive or threatening manner.
I agree with ctdonath. Your private property does not suspend my fundamental rights.
We have determined that a store or employer cannot say that
an AfricanAmerican cannot work for him.
We have a right to self defense and your private property doesn't deprive me of the right to defend myself.
An employer can tell me how to do my job and prevent me
from conducting activities on the job that are detrimental to the job. If my carrying is not detrimental it is as irrelevant as the kind of underwear I have on.
Sometimes, the private property freaks loose sight of the bigger picture.
We have determined that a store or employer cannot say that
an AfricanAmerican cannot work for him.
We have a right to self defense and your private property doesn't deprive me of the right to defend myself.
An employer can tell me how to do my job and prevent me
from conducting activities on the job that are detrimental to the job. If my carrying is not detrimental it is as irrelevant as the kind of underwear I have on.
Sometimes, the private property freaks loose sight of the bigger picture.
"Standing"
Someone must have "standing" to bring suit.
What will happen eventually is that someone who was arbitrarily denied an LTC will be killed by a criminal from whom they could have defended themselves with a weapon. At that time the survivors will have standing to hammer the laws and the state officials involved.
Someone must have "standing" to bring suit.
What will happen eventually is that someone who was arbitrarily denied an LTC will be killed by a criminal from whom they could have defended themselves with a weapon. At that time the survivors will have standing to hammer the laws and the state officials involved.
I ignore the "policies" set forth by any employer. They don't gurantee my health or safety, and I ignore their policies relating to this fact. Yes, I could be fired if found out.. but you have to make a decision for yourself, them.. or you. It's very simple if you think about it. They have their morals and principles, you have yours. Just be sure you do realize that, if caught, you are subject to termination... my advice.. just don't get caught. KISS: Keep it Simple Stupid.
USP45usp
USP45usp
We have determined that a store or employer cannot say that
an AfricanAmerican cannot work for him.
Well actually he can, but we've got a lot of unconstitutional laws that are being enforced in a lot of unconstitutional ways that will not let a private property or business owner conduct business as he might truly desire.
I say let people conduct business as they please (that includes refusing service or employment to any and all as they see fit, for any reason) and let the free market take care of the problem. To do anything else presumes a right to trade or a right to work.
StarfuryZeta
New member
I was getting to this very subject in my earlier post about CCW on worksite in FLA. Unfortunately, about the best I can figure, is that with my employer, in the building or on the grounds is definite means for dismissal. They claim that parking lot, including all vehicles, apply as well. I think I could get them on that one as long as I don't show anybody anything or mention it. As mentioned before, until someone gets killed who has a CCW and is denied carry, nothing will probably be challeneged. *SIGH*