Legalities Aside (lets Say We All Live In Texas)

[jmlv]

Would you be willing to shoot somebody for stealing YOUR property? Would the value of the property make a difference in your decision? Do you feel all theves should be shot on sight when caught in the act reguardless of any other circumstances?
Remember there would be NO legal repacussions to worry about civil or criminal(in our dream state world) so the only possible problem with this action would be : Could you live with yourself having done so?

 

[Kirk Keller]

I don't believe that I could kill someone for stealing property... but I don't have an issue with using a weapon to entice them to stop, including winging 'em.

 

[Joe Demko]

I'm not really concerned about worldly goods. They come and they go, regardless. I'm concerned about the safety of my family. Thieves, robbers, burglars, etc. will be killed for that reason, not because I give a crap about a computer or dvd player.

 

[WilderBill]

Well, it would be certain to prevent repeat offenders.

 

[TallPine]

Nope - rope and tree work better.

 

[Greybeard]

Quote: (lets Say We All Live In Texas)

I think that is a somewhat overrated and often overstated perception.

Yea, compared to some other states, Texas does have some more liberal interpretations of when "use of deadly force" can be justified. But, those who have taken the CHL course understand that the old theory of "He just needed killin' " ain't generally taught here no mo.

 

[Christopher II]

Speaking simply from a moral standpoint, yes. Doesn't mean that I would do so in every case, but I have the moral right to.

- Chris

 

[WilderBill]

Hey, if ya'll moved in here, it would be so crowded that half of Mexico would be forced to go home...

COME ON DOWN!

 

[graystar]

Yes I would shoot them. Remember, they brought this unto themselves; I didn't ask to be robbed. And I'm not interested in killing them....just stopping them.

I guess this question would be more easily answered in prairie days, where losing your axe could mean losing your life.

I doubt anyone would lose their life if their axe was stolen these days, but if someone stole the money needed to pay the bills, it could put a person in a very bad position; one that could take many months to recover from, possible never recover from.

I do not support any form of cruel and unusual punishment, but if a person is killed during the commission of a crime, well, that's the chance he took.

 

[bruels]

There is a burglar I caught at my home who went to prison for a couple of years. Before he left, I told his attorney to give him a map with a two mile radius circle drawn with my house at the center. I told his attorney to tell his client that should I ever find him again inside that circle that I would consider his presence a hostile act under military rules of engagement, and would deal with him appropriately.

The burglar's attorney is a former Army officer and understood perfectly what I was saying. He said he would explain such to his client.

 

[jdege]

The issue isn't the property, it's the threat.

If I confront someone in my home, and they immediately turn and run, they are not a threat.

If they follow my instructions to the letter, they are not a threat.

If they do anything else, they are a threat, and I'll use what force is necessary to deal with it.

 

[JPM70535]

I, like many other middle class Americans feel as though we worked too hard to acquire the material possessions we enjoy, and I for one will not stand idly by and watch some low life, drug using, slimeball make off with them. The very fact that he enters my home or vehicle threatens my self and family, and to that end I would dispatch him forthwith and never shed a tear.

I am not familiar with Texas law, but Louisiana some years back passed what we called the "Shoot the burgler bill", which in essence said you could shoot the BG as he attempted to break in. without him ever having achieved entry. If that law still stands it should serve as a model for all Srates

 

[unamused]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

Seems like a lot of you would be ok shooting at a man who tries to steal from you.

Personally I will tell you that that is completely immoral. It's individualistic, selfish and just plain wrong. A man who feels he has to steal is clearly someone with problems. Yes, he may be a low life drug users, it still makes them someone in need. In need of help. Not in need of death. I'm not saying open you home for everyone to grab what they need, but deciding that a thief merits death is highly disturbing. Being a thief is hardly like pedophilia where the chances of recovery are slim. It can be overcome with proper societal help. But yall feel that your possession are worth killing for. What exactly makes you different from wild animals in the jungle? You are evolved human beings - don't kill someone who is simply at a bad point in their life.

 

[Justin]

Personally I will tell you that that is completely immoral. It's individualistic, selfish and just plain wrong.

Since when is being an individual such a bad thing?
Oh, and since when is selfishness such a bad thing?

I'm not saying open you home for everyone to grab what they need, but deciding that a thief merits death is highly disturbing.

You don't find it highly disturbing that someone thinks it's ok to steal? Stealing is, after all, a blatant violation of the Principle of Non-Aggression.

But yall feel that your possession are worth killing for.

More than likely there'd be a simple, and quick, cost-benefit analysis involved in the situation. "Is it worth letting him get away with my VCR if it means I don't have to go to court?"
vs.
"Is it worth letting him get away with my computer, which contains lots of really, really important files that can't be replaced?"

What exactly makes you different from wild animals in the jungle?

Again, for me, at least, the Principle of Non-Aggression. I would submit that since the thief is the one who violated it, he is the one who is no different than a wild animal. I simply want to live my life, unmolested.

You are evolved human beings - don't kill someone who is simply at a bad point in their life.

It's not like we're talking about walking around and just murdering people who are down on their luck. The thief initiated force, after all.

 

[Betty]

Would I kill someone for stealing? That depends. Do I know he's broken into my house in the middle of the night just to steal? Do I have to ask him? Maybe he's going to start to steal, but decides,"Hey! There's a little lady in here, and it's been awhile since I've had any. I'm going to rape her. And then I'm going to kill her so she doens't ID me later."

Of course, he could be in need of help or having a bad day, so maybe I should just let him.

"Pardon me, sir, are you in here merely for my TV, or are you going to physically violate me, too?"

There's some people out there who honestly believe I should get raped like a good little victim. I shouldn't defend myself, because shooting someone is so abhorrent.

"Here, since it's society's fault for you being a loser, I'm going to give you my hard-earned TV. Take my jewelry so you can sell it at the nearest pawn shop to go buy yourself another crack rock, get high, and go nutzoids and beat someone to death. If it'll make you feel better, take my body too."

How about a few years down the road when I've got a family? Let a burglar ransack the room with my two year old in it? How many kids end up on the sides of milk cartons or found in a tiny bloody pile? But surely a burglary is just a burglary and never escalates into anything more, right? If you say yes and that I've been watching too much TV, I have been watching too much TV. The news. And the newspaper.

The sister of a man I know was found murdered right outside her home, her home robbed and ransacked. Maybe she tried to run. We may never know. Her killer or killers are still out there. They may find your home next.

 

[Preacherman]

Unamused, let me fill you in on a couple of facts that are unpalatable to many, but are nevertheless true... I work as a chaplain in a maximum-security prison, surrounded by more than 1,500 inmates of the worst possible kind. Many of them are in prison because of drug offences - but that drug problem drove them to burglary, crimes of violence, and a bunch of other felonies. If they break into your home, they are willing to take the consequences of their actions, because their violent nature gives them the belief - true in many cases - that they can deal with the "average" householder. One of them, in particular, I watch very carefully - he broke in to steal what he could for drugs, was confronted by the (armed) householder, disarmed him by extreme violence (leaving him crippled for life), raped his pregnant wife so savagely that she lost her baby,... do I need to go on? I've never found a better argument for the right to keep and bear arms than 24 hours in a max-sec. prison!!!

I think jdege has it absolutely right. If I confront a thief, and he either flees or obeys my orders to the letter, I'll not shoot him. I certainly won't shoot if he flees with my property - I don't want to kill someone over something that can easily be replaced. I don't want to shoot anybody! - those who have had to shoot others will know exactly what I'm talking about... However, if he tries to resist, or does not obey my orders, then we're no longer talking about shooting someone for robbery - we're in danger from a criminal who has no business being on or in our property. The issue is now self-defence, not theft, and you can be sure that most of us will make an appropriate response. In the same way, if he flees and is armed, posing a danger to other innocent persons around him, this adds a whole new element to the equation. I'm not saying I would definitely shoot him under these circumstances, because this is more a law-enforcement function: but I'm not saying I wouldn't shoot, either... the circumstances would have to be the deciding factor in the specific situation.

 

[spacemanspiff]

i can think of only a few items that i may use deadly force to prevent from being stolen:
any of my firearms
bose acousticmax
my spiders/scorpions (why a criminal would want these i dunno, but i'm not gonna let them be taken)

take my tv, take my cd's, take my video games, those things cost money and i'd just have to work some overtime to afford to replace them.

aside from those three items, i would use deadly force only if my life or someone elses was is grave danger.

 

[unamused]

Yes, the thief initiates, but how you react reflects on what kind of person you are. If you actually believe that you possess computer files that are more important than a human life, then that's when individualism is taken too far. If your individualism prevents you from attempting to understand that people who do wrong are at a bad point in their life (a point at which we could all find ourselves one day) then it's taken too far.
There is absolutely something wrong with selfishness. Still, we are all selfish to a certain degree. It's taken too far when you believe that a man who wants your computer deserves to die.

I understand you simply want to live your life, but as a human being (not an animal) who does benefit from life in society, it is your responsibility to look after other human beings as well. And not just your children or spouse, etc. But the greater community as well. We live in an individualistic society, where 'What's mine is mine cuz I bought it and you can't touch or I will hurt you" is the ruling principle, as opposed to a more collectivistic society where there is a clearer understanding of the one's role in the context of something greater that is to be cherished. Stealing is always wrong, but the punishment that yall are trying to impose does not fit the crime. Still, you defend it because you have been absolutely brainwashed by this society that judges who you are by what you possess. By killing a thief you are the one acting out of unproportionate aggression, and I would have to look at the thief as a victim: both of society (which makes me as responsible as anyone else) and of people who play God, such as yourselves.

 

[kjm]

I live in Texas where a few years ago a person was breaking into another's car in Austin and the guy chased the burgler down and shot him (the burgler had the woman's driver's license and housekey IIRC). What is important to remember is that if the theif hadn't been in the car to begin with, he would have never been shot.

Here are some simple rules for a peaceful, loving society where everyone gets along (they will also insure a long life in Texas assuming you take prudent health measures too):

1. If you didn't buy it and the owner didn't give it to you, it aint yours. If you take it, it is stealing. Stealing can in some cases get you shot. You decide.

2. If you are on property and you don't know whether or not you are trespassing, chances are, you are trespassing and that will certainly get you shot.

3. For God's sake, don't trespass and steal as that will almost guarantee a long dirt nap if caught.

4. Put things back like you find them, and try to leave things a little better than when you got there.

5. Don't park right up front. Leave those spaces for little old ladies, pregnant women and people with young children.

See, if you go around practicing those simple rules, we will all have a nice world to live in. If you violate the first three, we may all still have a society worth living in, but you probably won't be a part of it.

I notice that you're from NY. I wonder what the difference in crime rates are per 100,000 persons? Rules are only effective if they are enforced, and if you are unwilling to enforce the rules, you will notice that the rules have little effect.

Another rule of thumb is that you don't own anything that you are not willing to protect and defend with your life.

 

[TallPine]

They may find your home next.

They'll be sorry (but not for long) if they do, at least if I am around.

Anyone who forcibly enters my home while I am present is toast. No questions, no interviews. And with three dogs in the house, you better believe I will be awake.

Outside, that is a different story - unless there is also a threat against someone.