Leatham, Ayoob, or Cirillo?

[Mylhouse]

I have somewhat of a weird question to pose to everyone....

What type of shooter do you think would fare best in an armed self-defense or police shooting encounter?

a) an accomplished competition (IDPA, USPSA, Bullseye, you name it) shooter such as Rob Leatham

b) someone who has faithfully attended the various 'tactical' shooting schools or even someone that has been indoctrinated in various tactics and scenarios, and as such, teaches them, like Clint Smith or Ayoob

c) some battle proven, tough old hard a$$ that's been there, done that, like Jim Cirillo

Which type of shooter would you want to be (assuming you couldn't be all three)?

 

[M58]

Jim Cirillo, Bill Jordan...
When you have to shoot a human, it is not speed, it is avoiding the hesitation.

 

[croyance]

Wasn't Rob Leatham in the Marines before he was a competition shooter?

"Fare best"? You can walk away or you can't. They hit you or didn't.

Jim Cirillo in his prime? A proven commodity. Now? I have no idea how much training he does and what is mind set is. Did he mentally walk away from his old job too? That hesitation might slow him down too much.

I think that they would all draw and be ready for an aimed shot very quickly. At a guess each is ready in their mind to defend themselves. Odds are that each would be the one walking away from the incident. How do I measure who did the best?

 

[STEVE M]

Jim Cirillo. He has taken the training and still gives classes on ocassion. He was also a national level competitor. Having been there/ done that, you know how he will react.
None ov the people that you listed is so one deminsional, they all 3 branch out to broaden their experiances. Leatham teaches (and not just classes for match shooters), Ayoob shoots matches (a lot); and on and on. The more varied your experiances the more you will have to draw on when needed.

 

[Mylhouse]

I think you guys may be looking at the human examples I gave too literally...

The guys I mentioned probably have all 3 attributes to a certain degree. I just threw their names out there because they are among the most well known in the respective 'attribute' I put them under.

Sorry if my post was confusing. I personally would like to be the most like attribute "a".....I trust my instincts....

 

[agtman]

"***in an armed self-defense or police shooting encounter."


Given the parameters of your question, clearly Cirillo every time.

No disrespect to the others, but Cirillo has been in those lethal-force, shots-fired situations time and again (worked N.Y.P.D. stakeout, among other operations). He's shot at BGs, and/or been shot at by them, more often than 99.9% of today's street cops will ever see in their entire careers. Just knowing the particulars of what Cirillo did to avoid getting shot would greatly benefit most of us. I don't have his book in front of me, but the sheer number are armed confrontations, including those where his bullets put BGs on the ground, is huge.

AFAIK, he still does seminar work, and has at least a couple of books out and at least one video.

By the way, his current carry piece is the G-29 in 10mm. That says a lot to me.

 

[4V50 Gary]

While any of the three would probably do well (can you imagine Leatham as an Air Marshal who has to take out 6 bad guys?), I would opt for the feller who's seen the elephant: Cirillo.

 

[WYO]

The most important characteristic is the ability to deal with the pressure. While competition supplies some artificial pressure, the targets don't shoot back. I have known good competition shooters who would not survive a real encounter, while I know one admittedly terrible shot who could deal with the pressure and get hits against people when it mattered. The ideal person would probably borrow from all schools of thought. It is obvious that anyone who has been there has the edge the second time out, so it's easy to say that those shooters would fare best. But exluding those people, I think that (b) is the best blend.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Seeing as how I have attributes of . . . . well . . . . none of those three, any of them would be a welcome improvement. But if forced to choose I'd definitely take someone like Cirillo. You can't beat the certain knowledge that he's been in this situation before and came out OK.

 

[ctdonath]

The edge goes to the guy who has done it before and has no qualms about doing it again.

Don't underestimate the abilities of the others, however. As a random example: Ayoob survived an "unsurvivable" extensive combat simulation which 600 others failed at.

 

[Sam Norton]

Didn't Jim Cirillo ambush most if not all the bad guys he was in shootout with. Bill Jordan would be a grade higher. to me.



Best
Sam

 

[C.R.Sam]

Based on track record...Cirillo and others of his ilk. Such as Murphy, Musashi, York etc etc.
But.....even Cirillo was once a green rookie; and survived to do it again, and again.
Something in the basic mindset, plus a lot of luck, made them different.

Sam

 

[Don Gwinn]

I believe you're right, Mr. Norton--so Cirillo gets bonus points for strategery.

 

[Phil Ca]

I would give the point to Jim Cirillo, he was a firearms instructor at FLETC when I took training in Georgia. The fact that he ambushed the bad guys does not bother me at all. Walt Rauch is also a person to pay attention to. He is a former USSS agent that has written a very good book on dealing with the perps of this world.

 

[Jeff OTMG]

I had dinner with Cirillo last month at the SHOT Show and he would still be a formidable opponent. 30 or 40 years ago he and Bill Jordan would be tops on my list, they were in their prime then. I would be happy to have Ayoob on my side, he knows how to shoot and have no doubt that be would not hesitate. Farnum and Chapman also should also be considered.

 

[Jeeper]

Leatham!!!!!!!!!! I shoot with him almost every tuesday night and wouldnt want to shoot against him. As far as accuracy and speed goes you couldnt do any better. He teaches a lot of other stuff other than competition also. His gun handling ability is phenomenal.

I wouldnt want to face any of the guys listed.