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Lead/Linotype Difference?
- Thread starter zanthope
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Start at the low end of the spectrum and slowly work your way up.
There's no telling whether the bullets are harder or softer than standard lino.
There's no telling whether the bullets are harder or softer than standard lino.
Thanks for the replies, guys.
Pampers:
I'm not melting/molding my own lead, yet. I saw these 800 fps load data for linotype bullets in the Lyman Reloading Manual and wondered how much difference there is between regular lead and linotype lead, and if the load data would apply.
If linotype is harder, then isn't that a lot more bore friction, which alters pressure and velocity and, and, and...????
Is linotype like dinosaur bones anymore? Isn't everything in the whole world digital?
Pampers:
I'm not melting/molding my own lead, yet. I saw these 800 fps load data for linotype bullets in the Lyman Reloading Manual and wondered how much difference there is between regular lead and linotype lead, and if the load data would apply.
If linotype is harder, then isn't that a lot more bore friction, which alters pressure and velocity and, and, and...????
Is linotype like dinosaur bones anymore? Isn't everything in the whole world digital?
Steve Smith
New member
Ahh! You're using Linotype for 800 fps loads? You're kidding me!
Mike Irwin
Staff
Yeah, lino is going the way of the dinosaur, alright. Nowdays you have to make it yourself.
G&A (I think) had an article some years ago about producing rather large lots of lino metal (several hundred pounds). Producing it in large lots allows for better control and mixing of the ingredients, apparently.
The author actually used a wood-fired lino batching furnace that he scrounged from a newspaper.
Occasionally you'll still find a small-town weekly that's printing with hot type.
I was in Maine for Christmas about 15 years ago, and the town of Brewer (I think it was Brewer) had a small weekly that was REALLY a throwback. Broadsheet size, 8 column format, hot type printed. It was neat.
G&A (I think) had an article some years ago about producing rather large lots of lino metal (several hundred pounds). Producing it in large lots allows for better control and mixing of the ingredients, apparently.
The author actually used a wood-fired lino batching furnace that he scrounged from a newspaper.
Occasionally you'll still find a small-town weekly that's printing with hot type.
I was in Maine for Christmas about 15 years ago, and the town of Brewer (I think it was Brewer) had a small weekly that was REALLY a throwback. Broadsheet size, 8 column format, hot type printed. It was neat.
Bore friction?
Well, I suppose so. More than softer lead anyway, but MUCH LESS than jacketed bullets under almost all conditions. Once leas bullets are swedged down in the throat/forging cone, there's much less drag in the bore. That's why it's nearly impossable to wear out a bore using lead bullets.
Yr. Obt. Svnt.
Well, I suppose so. More than softer lead anyway, but MUCH LESS than jacketed bullets under almost all conditions. Once leas bullets are swedged down in the throat/forging cone, there's much less drag in the bore. That's why it's nearly impossable to wear out a bore using lead bullets.
Yr. Obt. Svnt.
jjmorgan64
New member
sure, kind of
The lead will give you leading problems at the top end, I would stick with their starting loads for the 146 gr #358212
As always double check all load data.
The lead will give you leading problems at the top end, I would stick with their starting loads for the 146 gr #358212
As always double check all load data.
When we are talking about lead bullets in modern firearms we are not talking about pure lead, we are talking about a lead alloy. What alloy you use depends on what you are going to do with the bullet, mainly how fast are you going to push it. Linotype contains the following alloy: 86% Lead, 3% Tin, 11% Antimony and has a Brinell hardness number of 22. A common alloy for casting handgun bullets is commonly referred to as a #2 alloy. It consists of 90% Lead, 5% Tin, 5% Antimony, and has a Brinell hardness number of 15. As you can see, the #2 alloy is much softer than linotype. This is not bad. You don't need to shoot super hard bullets in a handgun. To answer your original question, in a handgun, I would use the loading data you have. If you notice a significant amount of leading, or you have very poor accuracy, you have a problem. Excessive leading can be caused by one or more of several issues. Bullet size, bullet lube, and bullet hardness being three of them. These same factors also effect accuracy. If you are buying commercially cast bullets, there probably isn't much you can do about any of them. I have shot truckloads of commercially cast bullets and was well satisfied. In some of my guns I did experience leading. I forked over $12 and bought a Lewis Lead Remover from Brownells which removes the leading in one pass through the bore.
FYI, some futher information:
Wheelweights are 95% Lead, .5% Tin, 4% Antimony and have a Brinell hardness number of 9.
Pure Lead is obviously 100% Lead and has a hardness number of 5.
FYI, some futher information:
Wheelweights are 95% Lead, .5% Tin, 4% Antimony and have a Brinell hardness number of 9.
Pure Lead is obviously 100% Lead and has a hardness number of 5.
Jim Watson
New member
zan,
I don't know about the Phoenix brand, but most commercial cast bullets are 92% lead, 6% antimony, and 2% tin. All the old high-tin alloys are too expensive and not hard enough for general purpose loading. You need that 2% tin to get the lead to flow well and the mold to fill out, but antimony is harder and cheaper.
What Lyman manual are you using that uses linotype bullets? All of mine (44, 47, P&R, Cast Bullet) show loads for their old No 2 alloy, 90-5-5.
Anyhow, the data is close enough. There is no reason to load wadcutters to maximum pressure and velocity and any small difference will not be noticeable.
I don't know about the Phoenix brand, but most commercial cast bullets are 92% lead, 6% antimony, and 2% tin. All the old high-tin alloys are too expensive and not hard enough for general purpose loading. You need that 2% tin to get the lead to flow well and the mold to fill out, but antimony is harder and cheaper.
What Lyman manual are you using that uses linotype bullets? All of mine (44, 47, P&R, Cast Bullet) show loads for their old No 2 alloy, 90-5-5.
Anyhow, the data is close enough. There is no reason to load wadcutters to maximum pressure and velocity and any small difference will not be noticeable.
Thanks again for the good replies, guys. I always learn a lot from this board.
Jim Watson: Lyman 47th (New Edition) has 8 linotype loads on pages 386, 387, 388. I think I'm going to treat them just as though they were lead.
These flat wad cutters seem to have tremendous destructive potential when they're loaded up to 800 fps and beyond. In a highly unscientific testing of +P wadcutters out of my S & W M-19 .357, I shot up some scrap lumber and noticed lots of internal tumbling and huge exit holes that translate well into a (possible) short range, relatively safe backup SD carry round to use in my new .38 Charter Arms Undercover. Thus, all this questioning and testing.
I've got 5 129 gr +P HydraShoks (not factory recommended) in the cylinder, and I've discovered that five hot, short wadcutters in a speedloader disappear nicely into a pants pocket. Five wadcutters without the speedloader fit into the little change pocket in blue jeans. Now, I'm looking for the right recipe.
I could probably just go buy some, but what fun is that?
Jim Watson: Lyman 47th (New Edition) has 8 linotype loads on pages 386, 387, 388. I think I'm going to treat them just as though they were lead.
These flat wad cutters seem to have tremendous destructive potential when they're loaded up to 800 fps and beyond. In a highly unscientific testing of +P wadcutters out of my S & W M-19 .357, I shot up some scrap lumber and noticed lots of internal tumbling and huge exit holes that translate well into a (possible) short range, relatively safe backup SD carry round to use in my new .38 Charter Arms Undercover. Thus, all this questioning and testing.
I've got 5 129 gr +P HydraShoks (not factory recommended) in the cylinder, and I've discovered that five hot, short wadcutters in a speedloader disappear nicely into a pants pocket. Five wadcutters without the speedloader fit into the little change pocket in blue jeans. Now, I'm looking for the right recipe.
I could probably just go buy some, but what fun is that?