Lead Bullets

[branrot]

Is it okay to shoot lead (non full metal jacketed) bullets? Will it damage the gun? Particularly, is it ok to shoot them in:
1. Revolvers
2. Semi-autos
3. Glocks (weird rifling)
4. HK P7 (gas operated slide)

If it's not ok, why not? What ill effect will it have on the gun?

Also, is there any special care one needs to take (ie, special cleaning, etc.)?

 

[Kenneth L. Walters]

They work just fine in anything BUT a gas operated firearm. In those they will eventually gum up the works, literally.

 

[Willy]

Some precautions should be taken if you are going to try shooting them regularly through a barrel with polygon rifling.

 

[labgrade]

There's lead bullets & then there's lead bullets.

Swagged lead bullets are "usually" much softer & shouldn't be pushed too fast - keep them in the <1000 fps area & you should be fine. .22LR bullets are mostly swagged lead w/some having a copper (or somesuch) wash.

Cast bullets are of a harder alloy - extra stuff added to the mix. These can be pushed in excess of 2000 fps with no leading IF the allow is hard enough (linotype, etc.) & the bullets properly lubed.

Other than for defence, I shoot hard cast bullets in pistols & revolvers - easy on the bore. I think revolvers especially are tailor-made for cast bullets.

My bolt & pump rifles also get the cast bullet treatment.

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I noted Ken's post stated that cast bullets should not be used in gas operated guns, and I wanted to disagree politely. I have three M1 Garands and three SKS rifles that function quite well and are quite accurate with a 150 grain Lyman cast bullet of Loverin design. I use the same bullet for the M1 and the SKS rifles. For the M1s, the bullets are sized to .309, and for the SKS, they are lubed in a .311 die without sizing. I use gas checks, and there is ample lube in the grooves of the Loverin design. I also use slow burning powders for the M1 loads and medium burning powders for the SKS loads.

The guns like the cast bullets and do not require any unusual cleaning. I have had cast bullets work well for some guns and not so well for others, but this 150 grain Loverin design bullet has worked the best for me. It seems to work well in all the 30 caliber guns I have tried it.

I have also tried some commercially produced 30 caliber bullets which had only one or two lube grooves, a very long ogive, and no gas check. These did not work well for me in any guns, and they did seem to foul the bore.

I would suspect that my success with the Loverin design is largely due to the use of a gas check and the ample lube included in the grooves.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[Quantrill]

Cast Bullets in the M1 Garand

David,
You are the first person I have heard of who uses cast bullets in a gas operated rifle without having problems. Not to dispute you, but both the NRA and The Cast Bullet Ass'n have recomended against this and say that it will gunk up the piston. Having always heard the negative on this practice, I have never tried it but have often thought about it's possibilities. How long have you been doing this and did you ever try any other bullet than the Loverin design? Quantrill

 

[Southla1]

Quantrill, I guess I am getting old, but there was a study done some years ago, and for the life of me I cannot remember who did it (maybe it was Nonte I don't remember), but anyway they fired well over a thousand, hard cast, gas checked, rounds in a Garand. The gas piston was checked along with the gas port every hundred rounds or so. At the end of the test all was fine and there was no appreciable build up of lead on the psiton or the gas port. I fire them regularly in mine, and the piston and port are still just like they left the Springfield Armory years ago. Now I have heard that in the M1 Carbine that extended use they will begin to clog the gas port. I cannot vouch for that as my gas operated rifle/cast bullet expierence is strictly with John C. Garands finest.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Just lucky I guess. Around 70 I put several hundred cast without gas checks through my Garand. No ill effects. These were 180 gr at around 1,100fps. Single shot operation because of the light load. Great 100 yd target fun on the cheap. Extremely quiet too.

Sam

 

[Quantrill]

Guys,
I am really surprised. I guess you are never to old to learn. Maybe I'll try cast bullets in the M1. I had only used them in the '03. Thanks for bringing me up to date. Quantrill

 

[Southla1]

I use the Lyman 170 grain Round nose sized to exact bore diameter (.308) with a gas check and 41 grains of a non canister IMR-4895 powder in both my Garand and my 03. Velocity is in the 2200 FPS range, Function in the Garand is right at 100%, and it 100% in the 03 if your hand is 100%.

 

[David Wile]

Hey Quantrill,

This is responsive to your question about using cast bullets other than the Loverin design in the semi-auto rifles.

In my experience, I think you should use a gas checked bullet with any bottleneck rifle cartridge at high speeds - whether it is semi-auto or not. With gas checks and a hard alloy and ample lube rings, you can drive cast bullets well above 2000 FPS. I usually do not drive any above 2500 FPS, but I suspect you could go higher if you wanted to work at it.

I use commercially cast bullets without gas checks for some pistol loads, but I have not had any good results with any of the commercially cast bullets without gas checks that are made for 30 caliber rifles. They are usually pointed bullets with long ogives and only one or two lube grooves. For jacketed bullets, the spitzer design is obviouly a good one, but it just does not cut it for cast bullets - at least in my experience. That is why I was saying the Lyman double cavity mold in the 150 grain Loverin design has worked so well in so many of the 30 caliber rifles I have used it in.

I also have the same Lyman double cavity mold design in 6mm caliber, and I could never get it to do well for me in my .243 Winchester. That rifle was great with jacketed match bullets, bit I could never get my Loverin design bullets to work well in it. The same design bullet did work well in my father's .257 Roberts. I would guess that the 6mm bullets might work well in another .243, but it did not work in mine.

My point is that a gas checked, hard alloy bullet with ample lube grooves can work well in bottlenecked cartridges, including semi-autos. They can be quite accurate and also not foul bores and gas operating systems.

I notice that Lyman now makes some new gas check designs for 30 cal. cartridges that have "funny" shapes with ample lube grooves. I have never tried these new designs, but I would like to know how they have worked for other folks. Most of the molds that I use I have been using for more than thirty years. Does anyone have any experience with the new designs like Lyman has now?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[Bud Helms]

C.R. Sam: "... Around 70 I put several hundred cast without gas checks through my Garand. ... "

Nobody going to ask?

So, Sam, uh, how long ago was that? I mean how old are you now ? Hahaaa ... (snort! .. choke!) I couldn't help it.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Sensop, 39 and holding.

Sam....I'm not old, just high mile chassis.

 

[beemerb]

sensop;
He watched the mts being formed here in AZ.I am close behind as I watched the erosion trim them down.

 

[Wild Romanian]

Lead bullets

I have shot lead bullets using gas checks through about every miltary rifle ever made including the MI carbine. I have had no problems with leading provided you do not use too fast a burning powder. Stay away from pistol powders in large cases like the 3006 and use medium buring powders in guns like the MI Grand.

The MI carbine functions best with 4227 powder but I have also used 2400 powder.

In bolt guns like the Mausers in 7mm, 8mm, 3006, 7.7 Jap and .308 I have had good luck with 4198 powder.

All rifle bullets were cast of pure lynotype and gas checked and lubed with 50/50 alox lube. W.R.