Lead Bullets

[branrot]

Is it okay to shoot lead (non full metal jacketed) bullets? Will it damage the gun? Particularly, is it ok to shoot them in:
1. Revolvers
2. Semi-autos
3. Glocks (weird rifling)
4. HK P7 (gas operated slide)

If it's not ok, why not? What ill effect will it have on the gun?

Also, is there any special care one needs to take (ie, special cleaning, etc.)?

 

[4thHorseman]

branrot, I can only speak for myself when I say I try not to use lead bullets in revolvers. I have experienced a lot of barrel leading with the bullets I purchase in the gun shops. Maybe there is a better quality of lead bullets out there somewhere, I just can't find them. As for semi's, I know most people and myself including, will say they have jamming problems out of them. Most semi's are not made for anything else but jacket type bullets. But as many things go, it purely a matter of choice.

 

[Mike Irwin]

If you're getting barrel leading, you're either not using hard enough bullets or you're driving them too fast.

I shoot almost exclusively lead through my .38s, .357s, and my .41 Mag. No leading problems. I get the hardest bullets I can find and have never had leading problems.

Lead bullets are absolutely FINE in virtually all revolvers and most semi-autos.

The P7 is, however, an exception. Because of the gas system, lead bullets shouldn't really be shot because the debris will quickly clog the gas port and the gun can eventually be damaged.

If you do get lead buildup in your revolvers, don't try to shoot it out with jacketed bullets. Remove it with a Hoppes Lead Remover.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Mike speaks true.

Several hundred thousand cast bullets have gone through my wheels, autoloaders and rifles. You just have to pay attention and get it right.

I would like to add that leading on revolvers can also be caused by too tight cylinder mouth in relation to true bore size, or slightly out of time.

Sam

 

[4thHorseman]

Mike, can you please provide us with the name of just ONE semi automatic gun manufacture that recommends the use of lead bullets in their weapons?

 

[Archie]

I can't calculate the number of lead

bullets I've shot through handguns.

Revolvers are especially fond of lead. Hard cast bullets are better than some of the commercial soft swaged types. But even the swaged types are useful at lower velocities.

Properly shaped hard lead bullets work well in pistols as well. I confess I am partial to the copper plated bullets for my pistols.

I have an H&K with polygonal rifling. What little leading does rub off on the bore is easily removed. No "corners".

 

[blades67]

I can only think of two that specify jacketed bullets, HK's P7 series pistols and IMI's Desert Eagle pistols. In both cases it is because of their gas systems.

 

[taco]

I load and shoot a lot of cast lead bullets in my pistols and revolvers. Only handgun I didn't shoot cast lead bullets were all models of Glock pistols, H&K P7M8, Styr GB pistol and a 30 Luger pistol. Everything else I shoot 90% cast lead and 10% jacketed bullets.

 

[ArmySon]

95% of the rounds (over 28K) fired through my various 1911's are lead. 75% of the rounds fired through my .45/70's are lead. Over 90% of the rounds fired through my .38's and .357's are lead. 99.9% are my reloads.

When using the right bullets and proper velocities, leading isn't a problem.

 

[PreserveFreedom]

I know that Glock specifies factory jacketed ammo. S&W specifies jacketed ammo when shooting +p from one of their ultralights wheelguns. Other than that, I'd shoot lead out of anything. Although I don't reload yet, I can't wait until I can start. Lead bullets seem to be a reloader's best friend. They are reputed to be the easiest to work with and they are usually the least expensive. They are also a favorite for cowboy action shooting out of SA revolvers.

 

[Mike Irwin]

4th Horseman,

Not certain exactly what you're driving at, but to answer your question...

Manufacturers that SPECIFICALLY recommend the use of lead bullets?

None that I can think of.

I can, however, think of many that specifically recommend the use of FACTORY ammunition only, without drawing a distinction between lead and jacketed bullets.

In fact, most of them, if not all of them, say that use of handloaded ammo can/will void the warranty.

But, given the fact that ALL of the major manufacturers -- Federal, Remington, Winchester, etc., -- offer all-LEAD bullets in their handgun ammo, including some loading semi-auto rounds with lead bullets, and the handgun manufacturers make no admonitions against the use of lead factory loads, you draw the inference.

Also, Smith & Wesson for many years had its own ammunition line. Yep, they loaded lead bullets, and recommended SPECIFICALLY the use of S&W ammo in S&W guns, again drawing no distinction between jacketed and all-lead.

Think about it, guys. Lead bullets have been around for a LOT longer than jacketed bullets.

Jacketed handgun bullets didn't really come into their own commercially for semi-autos until the late 1890s early 1900s, when the semi-auto took hold.

Jacketed bullets for revolvers, though, didn't come into common usage in factory ammo until after World War I.

 

[ArmySon]

What do you think all those cowboys shot? Certainly not Desert Eagles and Glocks

 

[blades67]

I forgot to mention handguns with polygonal rifling.

 

[4thHorseman]

Mike, maybe I'm missing something here. I agree in the fact many manufactures make both lead and jacket bullets. Also in the fact that revolvers often use both types of bullets manufacture by cartridge companies. That's not the question. It's just I can't recall right now many, if not one, manufacturer that produces factory ammo for a semi auto in lead. I know you are able to reload with lead bullets, but but again, that's not in question. I'm not claiming they don't exist, I just can't recall any. And I believe the reason is, the ability of the bullet to feed correctly in semi autos are greatly reduced. I also agree about your statement on S&W ammo, again did they make lead bullets for the semi auto? I'm not sure what the companies did 100 years ago, the present day will be fine. I also can not recall one manufacturer that produces a lead bullet in cartridge form for the 357 or 41 mag. probably for the reason you mention, because of the velocity of the bullet. Again, I never asked for a lead box of bullets for pistols, or 357 or 41mags at the range. I just asked for a box of bullets. Maybe that's the reason.?.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All;

I too, handload most of my ammunition using cast
lead bullet's; without a single problem from
revolver's and/or auto-loader's. Weapons in
which these are used range from a Smith & Wesson
model 60, 686, and 629 thru the Sig-Sauer "P"
series, including my much beloved P220A .45ACP
and a P228 9m/m. Hope this helps a bunch!!!

Another answer would be to use gas check's on
bullet's designed for revolver's, if you want
to drive em' fast.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Wild Romanian]

Lead bullets

I use lead in everything including high power rifles which are gas operated ones. Just use a hard bullet and gas check it. I have also used very hard bullets is gas operated pistols with no problem.
When loading for revolvers I often had to be careful in certain calibers like the .44 magnum. Too fast a burning powder in this gun and no matter how hard you cast your bullets you may get a lot of leading. I used Hercules 2400 and Hogdens 110 and had good luck with little leading.
As far as auto-pistols go. Camp Perry shooters have been shooting millions of rounds fo lead bullets out of their 1911's for almost 100 years. I like the conical style bullets in both 9mm and .45acp. They will feed flawlessly if you match the right bullet to your weapon, in fact much better than lead round nosed bullets. Many throated .45 acp's will also feed semi-wad cutters with no problem and with I might add with outstanding accuracy. It is also well know among experienced target shooters that barrels last much longer when feed a steady diet of lead rather than jacketed bullets. Few people realize it is easier to get a few streaks of lead out after a days shooting than to try and remove a lot of copper fouling. W.R.

 

[RWK]

I'm less than certain re this, however, I seem to recall Glock specifically recommends against lead bullets due to the polygonal rifling of their barrels.

Someone please correct me, if I've screwed this up.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

As someone else noted, you shouldn't shoot lead in polygonal barrels. That includes Glocks and most H&Ks, and a few others. (The CZ-83, for example, can have a polygonal barrel. I handled a CZ-83 9x18 the other day that had one of these new barrels.)

These barrels, which are fine barrels, are designed so that the flattened sides of the barrel, rather than lands and grooves, give the spin to the bullet. But because so much more of the barrel contacts the bullet than is the case with lands and grooves, more of the lead tends to stay behind. That left-behind lead can lead to increased pressures -- which can lead to major suprises for the shooter.

That said, you can shoot lead in any gun that has polygonal barrels -- if you clean them far more frequently than you might clean other barrels. I don't think its really worth the trouble or risk.

(My son, a cop, used my Glock 17 in is Basic Law Enforcement Training program a few years back. We cleaned it every night -- and there was some build up. We made sure it was safe. He had the best scores of the class, too.)

If I were really enthusiastic about shooting lead in one of the polygonal barreled guns, I'd just get a Bar-Sto or similar after-market barrel of more conventional design.

As someone else noted, gas-powered or gas-damped recoil guns can have a problem with lead, too.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Horseman,

Ah! Now we're closer to the heart of the matter, you want to know about semi-auto pistols...

Lead bullets, as long as they have the proper contour, need be no less reliable in a semi-auto than jacketed bullets.

One of the favorite match bullets for use in .45 ACP is the 200-gr. Truncated Cone Wadcutter, a very funky looking bullet. Some 45s require work to feed anything other than hardball, some will feed a VW Beetle with no problems.

As for who loads lead bullets in semi-autos these days, it's mostly the remanufacturers, custom loaders, etc.

I THINK that NBC will load new semi-auto ammo (new cases, etc.) for you, giving you the choice to select the bullet type.

NBC and several other manufacturers/remanufacturers are also using plated bullets, which have a very thin flash coating of copper on them. They can't be considered to be jacketed, as the copper isn't thick enough or hard enough, but they're not strictly lead, either.

Back to revolvers -- Federal still loads lead in its .32 and .357 Magnum rounds.

At one time not too long ago Winchester did the same thing, but they appear to have dropped that ammo, unfortunatly. The .357 Mag. 158-gr. LSWCHP was well thought of as a police round. I'm pretty certain that they still offer the .38 Spl. +P round with the same bullet.

Oh, by far the MOST common lead bullet round found found for use in semi-automatic handguns, revolvers, and rifles?

The lowly .22 Long Rifle.

Any way you look at it, though, lead bullets are slowly being replaced in loaded ammo. 25 years ago there were more choices in factory ammo loaded with lead bullets.

I think that a lot of that has to do with production simplification. The equipment you need to make lead bullets isn't even remotely the same as the equipment used to make jacketed bullets.

 

[Wild Romanian]

lead bullets

To Walt: I guess I will have to respectfully disagree with you. My polygonal bore pistols and rifles pick up no more leading than do my standard barrels. As a matter of fact my 7.7 Jap rifle does not lead the bore at all and is my most accurate cast bullet rifle, it beats out all my other military rifles with cast bullets.
I have found no difference in accuracy or leading in pistols that have polygonal bores when shooting cast bullets.
What causes leading is to small a bullet for the bore of the gun or improper lube or a very rough bore or to fast a burnin powder for the caliber. As a matter of fact the hardness of the bullet does not seem to affect leading until you start to surpass 2000 fps. I have even observed no leading in .44 mag factory lead ammo which uses dead soft lead bullets as compared to hard cast bullets with lynotype in them. W.R.