LE encounter Columbus OH

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jburtonpdx

New member
So my wife got in a car accident today. She called me and I went out there to sit with her and the kids while all the stuff that happens in that situation happens.

As I am sitting there with her the officer that is writing the report walks up knocks on the window and asks "Mr. Burton do you have your weapon on you?" I did not and said "No". That was the end of it, he did not hassle me about it at all or even ask me to get out of the car.

The reason I bring this up is I am just wondering if he was trying to beat me to the punch. If he was going to claim that I failed to notify promptly and write me for it. It is just speculation but that is the feeling I got from it...

Later one of the other officers walked over and started to BS with me about ccw and stuff. He struck me as somebody that was genuinely just interested in the "civilian" point of view on ccw.

I guess the entire reason I bring this up is the subjective way the law is written in Ohio (and other places I am sure). What is promptly? I literally would not have had any opportunity to tell the officer before he asked me. I could not even have interrupted him before he got the question out.

Oh yeah and btw - wife and kids ok, other guy ok but went to hospital, her fault no getting around it, other guys car is probably a lost cause, her car I am guessing probably 6 or 7 grand in damage, its worth probably $9500.
 
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FirstFreedom

Moderator
It's an excellent legal question. The answer depends on (a) how big of a-holes the cops feel like being, and (b) if they are a-holes, how good your lawyer is, how exactly the law is worded, what judge you draw, and what the judge's mood is on the day you show up in court (or a jury if you take it to a jury trial). IOW, the answer MAY be, if there is not yet any settled case law in your state on the precise point, that there presently is NO answer. My opinion is that more likely than not, yes he was attempting to box you in and accuse you of failing to notify, but that's speculation and only that cop knows for sure. Obviously, your defense would be, "promptly" implies a time limitation of *reasonableness*, based on all the facts and circumstances, and that you did not have the time/opportunity to so notify. My question is, how did he know who you were and that you had a ccw license?
 
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jburtonpdx

New member
My question is, how did he know who you were and that you had a ccw license?
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I am the registered owner of the vehicle and in Ohio if you have a CHL it pops an alert up for the officer when he runs the vehicle license. He assumed who I was when he walked up to the car.
 
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1911ONR

New member
That raises an interesting question... What if you were packing? I assume that the engine was off and keys removed. You weren't in a moving vehicle then. You arrived at the scene after the accident. What is your obligation to inform the LEO?
 
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TheBluesMan

Moderator Emeritus
First of all, JBurton, I'm glad your family is all right. :)

My wife got stopped near Akron in a car that is in both of our names. The police officer pulled her over for speeding and commented, "So your husband has a license to carry?" when he came to the window.

1911ONR - according to the law, you must inform the officer if you are carrying regardless of whether you are operating the vehicle or not. If you're walking down the street and say hi to a passing cop, you don't have to; but in the course of his official duties, you are obligated to announce it at the earliest possible moment.
 
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BigBoreKindaGuy

New member
Well this raises another question...the wife was in the accident not you...you are on the scene as a consequence of the acident your wife was in not because you were stopped by the LEO.

Are you precluded from the notification obligation since you are not there as a result of something you did but just as a bystander to help your wife? :confused:
 
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Ohio Annie

New member
I don't think the guy meant anything bad by it. After all, cops fear paperwork much more than they fear guns in people's hands. :p Anyway, he might have just been clearing the air for his own benefit. He did have a right to ask. The fact that he did indicates to me that he was just being careful. He didn't know you and there are some hotheads who might have a CCL who might get all problematic about their wife being in a car accident. Don't give it another thought, other than wish we didn't have this situation that you need a license to protect yourself.
 
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jburtonpdx

New member
I don't think the guy meant anything bad by it. After all, cops fear paperwork much more than they fear guns in people's hands. Anyway, he might have just been clearing the air for his own benefit. He did have a right to ask. The fact that he did indicates to me that he was just being careful. He didn't know you and there are some hotheads who might have a CCL who might get all problematic about their wife being in a car accident. Don't give it another thought, other than wish we didn't have this situation that you need a license to protect yourself.
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:( Quit simplifying the issue and pointing out that I was trying to read his mind.... I am sure you are correct now that I think about it...
 
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BillCA

New member
Hmmm... The question I have, not being an OH resident, is under what circumstances are you obligated to divulge the information to the officer? The secondary question is what "promptly" really means.

In your case, the officer initiated contact and his first question was if you were carrying your firearm. If the officer initiates the contact and his first words to you are as you described, it's impossible for you to inform him "more promptly" than by answering the question.

Now, if the officer's intent was to claim that you should have informed him the moment you arrived on the scene; or before verifying the condition of your family; or before escorting the children to a safer automobile; or before talking to your children to calm them down then this officer needs a swift kick in the pants (enough so that he has to unzip to blow his nose). In such a case I think any decent lawyer could argue that "promptly" would be unconstitutionally vague as applied by the officers for who would not want to ensure the safety of their family & children first?
 
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jburtonpdx

New member
The question I have, not being an OH resident, is under what circumstances are you obligated to divulge the information to the officer? The secondary question is what "promptly" really means.
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Any "Law Enforcement" encounter that occurs the CHL holder is required to promptly notify the officer if the license holder is carrying his weapon.

I just spent 20 minutes reading the actual law looking for a specific quote for you and gave up. Man that bill has a bunch of crap in it. There is trespassing language in there that has nothing to do with guns, it talks about trespassing as it pertains to a computer network....

As far as the second question, that is part of why I brought up the thread. I dont know of any case law out there for it, and frankly I dont want to be the test case....
 
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9mm1033

New member
As a retired Ohio LEO I was unaware the BMV had your license plate registered in NCIC as a CCW permit holder. That's interesting. I've talked to some of my fellow officer buddies (still active) and they are confused by Ohio's goofy language in the conceal carry law. Actually, it seems they could care less. If you are armed, tell them and that's it. Now, with that statement, I'm sure someone is going to tell a story of how he was hassled by a cop. I think we are all mature enough to know every situation (and offficer) is different.
 
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Unique 5.7

New member
Smart cops often "shake the tree" a little bit, even if a situation is obvious. It's good police work. That "other officer" who came and talked to you about CCW nicely may have been doing that, too.
 
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USP45usp

Moderator
In Oregon, our CHL is linked to our DL so the LEO's won't know until the run the DL.

Pretty cool some of the things they have on that computer, when they run your DL, all your history, criminal and informational, pops up, including your picture. Here, when they "run you", they really "run you".

In the places where the system doesn't work (out of range, etc..) then they do a call in and your basic information is given, including if you are a CHL.

I just give them my permit with my papers, just seems to work out better that way, for both of us even though I have no duty to inform.

Wayne
 
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