La Pierre on Meet the Preess

[Mike in VA]

Just finished watching. Wayne held his own, but really needs to work on his rhetoric and public presence. It wasn't that what he said wasn't true, but like the NRA in general, they're still off in their windage in framing the question and getting it over teh plate. The could invest in a little market research to guage how the public percieves the 'problem' and co-opt their language. The administration is a master of this. Russert was pretty much of a dick, but at least let La Pierre make his points (more or less), though his media bias was pretty evident to me (clearly not a gun guy). The Adminsitration guy made my skin crawl, he was so smarmy. SOS-DD, more Government, more laws is the answer to any problem BS.

Tom DeLay, OTOH, was quite polished and made his points well. Though I don't like Delay personnally, he stayed on issue, was clear and to the point, no fluster or bluster. The NRA should take lessons, but at least they're in there swinging. I remain puzzled as to how the NRA can be the most powerful lobby on the Hill, yet be so clutzy in the live media. Merde.
M2

 

[Gale McMillan]

The NRA should hire full page adds Accusing Clinton of the death of the police who Rap Brown killed because he declined to prosecute on the weapon charge 5 years ago. That is something they can't spin out of as it is on the record. And you never hear that the 2nd amendment is a constitutional right that they want to over turn.. I would like to have Shumer by the balls and give them a squeeze every time he lies. It would sound like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Mike is right. The NRA needs professional level market research into strategies that sell and getting pro level spokespeople.

Just heard Charlton tell Cokie Roberts that the NRA had 33 million members. They had to gently correct him.

La Pierre let Joe Lockhart eat his lunch.
He just sputters and sweats.

 

[ChuteTheMall]

Some quotes from Tim Russert interrupting LaPierre:
"Yes or No?" asked within 1st 120 seconds.

"Is that what you're saying? Is that what you're saying" trying to put words in his mouth.

"Did you believe that or not? Do you believe that?
"So your answer is yes?"

"Do you stand by your comments? Do you stand by your comments?"

"Why can't you say yes or no?"

If someone speaks to me in this manner, I will respond appropriately. That's why no one pays me to be a spokesman. Shorter fuse.


------------------
Some people have a way with words. Others not have way.

 

[pluspinc]

LePierre rattles really easy. He doesn't take pressure well. A real optimist would say he held his own. That isn't good enough. You need a Rush Limbough type presentation.
I saw Jim Carville against him a few years back. LePierre was drawn and quartered. They know LePierre's style or lack of it. We need someone with a much more polished presentation. Larry Pratt isn't all bad however. Tom Selleck would be a gem.

 

[walangkatapat]

I just got done watching Wayne and the opposing viewpoint(some guy named Reed) on Fox Sunday with Tony Snow. Wayne was kind of shaky as well as this guy named Reed. I usually don't watch this stuff anymore simply because it's a waste of time. There is no more such thing as journalism any longer. All journalists do now is give opposing opinions rather than digging up facts from creditable sources to educate the viewers. If journalists do manage to work and dig up facts they use it for their political leanings and biases. Reed continues to bring up this we've stopped 500,000 felons form getting guns. If that's the case how did the guy that shot the cop get a gun? Congress had hearings just last year on federal gun prosecutions, all a real journalist would have to do is find the results. Then Reed and Snow asked Wayne to apologize to the Rapist in Chief, well how about all of the insults, demonizing, smash mouthing the rapist in Chief and his cohorts have said about the NRA members and other gun owners? Wayne also said the NRA supports smart gun technology, that's news to me, because I sure in the heck don't.

------------------
"Gun Control Only Protects Those in Power"

 

[walangkatapat]

ChuteThMallGawdSortaMount, the unprofessional ass Russert has always been hostile to Wayne.

------------------
"Gun Control Only Protects Those in Power"

 

[walangkatapat]

pluspinc, Larry Pratt isn't all bad however. Tom Selleck would be a gem.

I believe Larry was labeled a Nazi or some type of militia member by the opponents of Pat Buchanan back in 1996 and left Pat's campaign because of this. Tom got his butt kicked by Rosie. Tom is too much of a gentleman and so is Heston. I saw Heston on Cspan giving a speech to the National Press Club. He gave a great speech, but when it came to Q&A he stunk. I know exactly what you're saying about Wayne, but I've seen him when he is really on. A few years ago he debated Schumer on some PBS news show. Wayne walked all over Schumer and he even kept Schumer speechless.

Gale McMillan, The NRA should hire full page adds Accusing Clinton of the death of the police who Rap Brown killed because he declined to prosecute on the weapon charge
5 years ago.

After Waco happened the NRA took out full page ads featuring goon teams like the ATF kicking in your door, something like, you could be next. Of course Clinton and his national news media went bezerk. I loved the ad, because it was true. Unfortunately Wayne ended up backing down from the jack booted thugs statement he made which was very disappointing. I'm glad the NRA is finally getting some fire again and hopefully they won't back down.

------------------
"Gun Control Only Protects Those in Power"

[This message has been edited by walangkatapat (edited March 19, 2000).]

 

[Joseph]

Why is it, with all the money given to these guys (LaPierre and Platt), that they can't get over their egos and invest in first-rate press people.

There are so many good arguments that can counter the antis, but these lightweights seem to put their own glory before our rights, and too often blow it big time.

At least GOA is using an alternate to Larry who is somewhat better, but it still makes us all look like a bunch of hicks.

Why is everyone using us to further their own agendas?

 

[Robert Foote]

Didn't see the program, but I agree that LaPierre isn't exactly what you'd call dynamic. Rightly or wrongly, it isn't enough to have logic, law, or right on your side any more--you have to be able to communicate. We wouldn't have this particular problem unless there was a certain level of concern out there that the Administration is able to tap into. Whether we like it or not there now is a lot of public concern about guns and the anti-gun groups are controlling the discussion. This is not because they are right, but because they know how to grind out attractive propaganda and appeal to emotions. We could do essentially the same thing but also do it with honesty. About time to start doing it, too.

------------------

 

[Brett Bellmore]

Wayne's problem? The greatest source of eloquence is believing in what you're saying. If you truly believe in something, and know why you believe in it, you will be convinced of your ability to persuade other people, and you won't shrink from attempting it. This is true even of sociopaths like the President, who lie convincingly because they're capable of believing whatever they say at the moment they're saying it, 'cause they're nuts.

Now, the official line of the NRA is that the Second amendment guarantees a right to keep and bear arms which is right on a par with the First amendment's freedom of speach. But the NRA's POLICY is one of compromise. They've resigned themselves to the perpetual existance of laws which blatently violate the Second amendment, and other parts of the Constitution, too. They've even LOBBIED for such laws! Nobody who totally agrees with the NRA's policies (And that's an obvious necessity to be the NRA's spokesman.) can wholely agree with the NRA's official line about the Second amendment, and visa versa. So the NRA can't have effective spokesmen!

I mean, think about it; Put any one of us in that chair, and if we didn't suffer from stage fright, (I'm ok in front of crowds; I don't puke until afterwards...) we'd be incredibly eloquent... And then somebody would ask us about machineguns, and we'd say that of course Americans have a right to own machineguns! They'd ask us about the background checks, and we'd say that gun ownership is a civil right, and the government's got no authority to demand that you pass a background check to exercise a civil right. We'd be contradicting NRA official policy on half a dozen fronts, because that policy just isn't consistant with the Second amendment!

------------------
Sic semper tyrannis!

 

[Byron]

"And then somebody would ask us about machineguns, and we'd say that of course Americans have a right to own machineguns! They'd ask us about the background checks, and we'd say that gun ownership is a civil right, and the government's got no authority to demand that you pass a background check to exercise a civil right."

Yikes! A perfect prescription for disaster! You have to start where people are (most are in favor of stricter gun controls) and persuade them toward your position with logic, evidence, and, most important BY FAR, every appeal to emotion you can muster. This means getting the women who have warded off rapists on TV to tearfully testify, ditto the homeowners who have rescued loved ones, the store owners who have saved themselves and their customers, etc. Get them all up there on 15-30 second TV spots to tell us how they would not be here today without the right to self-defense that the gun grabbers want to eliminate. The self-defense aspect is the Achilles Heel of the anti-gun movement, but it can't be presented as abstract argument. It has to be made real and immediate by emotional testimony. To watch the NRA, GOA, et al., you would think this was rocket science instead of Persuasion 101.

 

[Keystone]

Just as important as getting a spokesman is getting an appropriate forum for them to speak in. It will be very hard for any NRA spokesperson to get a good forum to speak in.

Actually, I was amazed at Heston's survival with Sam and Cokie. They were really easy on him. He is not fast on his feet.

LaPierre should have interrupted Lockhart more frequently than he did.

 

[DC]

The problem is that no one outside the immediate family gives a rat's ass about a potential rape.

It requires blood, pain, misery, injury to get public attention. A woman who stops her rape without killing the rapist is smoke....no one (outside her family and friends) cares or even considers it valid of their time. A woman who is raped, and messed up big time, then prevails is news....of course then the Ms. crowd deflect it to some other direction....like some BS pie in the sky legislation about fingering potential rapists (except the President, doncha know).

As a woman, I know, conclusively...the Socialists don't give a rat's ass about me or my welfare.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

 

[DC]

I taped it and can make an RealAudio file if desired.

Fine, so Wayne isn't the best public speaker...
I'm very disappointed that not a single one of you KNOW and took issue with the gov't spokesman...
It's Joe Lockhart!!! The God damned Press Secretary.

And you haven't noted that Lockhart dismisses the street cop as a moron....." so what, the National Police Organizations support the President".
The street cop is a moron...the guy who actually is on the scene, the guy who can die, the guy who may save your sorry ass...but Joe thinks the street cop's opinion mean bupkis cuz the street cop isn't the Nat'l Org, who supports the Pervert-in-Chief.

LaPierre pointed out that the street cop is not in favor of more gun laws, the street cop wants prosecution under existing laws....but of course, if the street cop was worth a damn he/she would be a politician, and a Liberal Clinton Butt-licker

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

DC - instead of the defensive sweats, Wayne
should answer each question with:

So you don't want women to stop rape? You want women to wake up seeing the guy with the duct tape and straight razor and reach for a copy of It Takes A Village To Raise a Child.

Is that the option you want for your daughter?

Tell me how your administration will guarantee that women and old people will have the ability to defend themselves?

That's what to do, rather than old white farts babbling about the Founding Fathers and 2nd Amend. They may be cool but it doesn't sell
to the middle of the spectrum.

Dump the Larry Pratts and his militia home movies and Charlton and his antigay jokes.

Get serious PR research and help here.

 

[TMoney]

I saw part of the show also and was not overwhelmed by LaPierre's performance. He was allowing Lockhart to walk on him too much. Russert is a lop-sided bigot.

But, DC, since you taped it, help me here. At one point in the show, I am certain I heard Lockhart actually say that the bankruptcy of the gun manufacturers was the ultimate goal, or something to that effect.

If this is correct, we are fighting unlimited funds that have no qualms about using unfair trade practices, that can manipulate the courts without consequences. Do we have much of a chance?

 

[DC]

Fine, Glenn...

Let's forget all that was covered and said on the show...let's just burn Wayne because he isn't the best public speaker. Let's totally forget Lockhart's comments, let's dawdle and jack-off, let Joe's comments stand and look to the future, cuz Wayne is inept.

You deal with what you have and change as you go....when your most notorious spokesman says what you believe, you don't cut his knees in public. You get your high level PR types (which I do agree with). But you don't burn down the only guy that has a national audience and who is on your side

Course, I'm not in academia anymore so obviously I can't think rationally nor precisive. Everything must be done linear?
Nevermind...I'm just a dumb hick female who doesn't know squat.



------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

 

[samsonj]

I was not able to watch the show, it sounds like that is exactly what it was to a show.
I may be wrong but it seems to me that we would be greatly helped to be represented by some one that was not affected by any form of pressure, political or financhel.
You can only be a strong speeker if you truly believe what you are saying, or as kommee klenton a really good lier with no conchience? any way, Back Bone is a real need here. I hate to say it but from what I see our liberties are soon to be a thing of the past. I pray that is not the case, or china is going to put a big hole in california. I agree with DC in alot of areas, the only band wagon that is jumped on is eather a bloody one, or one fighting for the rights of those that(to me) don't deserve them. As a republic I fear we are screwed or due for a revolt, I for one will not give up my wepons with out a fight.
We as gun rights advocates do need to unite, the sooner the better.


------------------
one shot one kill

 

[pluspinc]

the govt speakers have a big advantage. They LIE with athority. They can be real bad speakers and that puts them one up on our side.
LePierre at least can't BS as much as the govt types. Rosie sure as hell didn't beat up on Selleck. He knew when to shut up and let her rattle on and make an ass of herself which she did with such perfection it cost her the KMart deal and some others. The swell of emotion went to nice guy Tom. He withdrew from the emotional attack and at times saying nothing is more effective.
It may be coincidence but her ratings started to fall after that and she is on ratings thin ice as the judge shows take over.
Dr. Laura has done a great job on this issue but she gets attacked on a personal level whenever she does which is another word for EMOTIONAL attacks. She is a BIG thorn in the anti-gun crowds side. She's female, Jewish, and damned popular. A bizaar angle to come from if you are pro-gun these days. She reaches MORE people in one segment of her show than the entire Meet the Press did and she reaches the right ones to boot. NRA should buy time on her show.
I loved it when LePierre was attacked on Meet the Press for "trying to solicite new members" by the host. LePierre should have responded, " isn't your attack on me trying to get better ratings?" Would be like asking a man if he beat his wife recently.