Kocher's take on the election (long)

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Munro Williams

New member
This was deleted from Free Republic due to the hysteria it generated. Read it fairly before condemning it, as it's the most cogent assessment of how things are I've read.

More Hard Reality

Robert L. Kocher


Ladies and gentlemen, let's take a look at the record and history of this situation.

George Bush has a spotty history. He looks good when viewed superficially. In fact, he has done very little of any seriousness in his lifetime. His existence has consisted of coasting through life on the basis of family name and contacts.

It was also that way with his father, who continued in the path set and enabled by grandfather Bush. George W. was brought into an oil business as a figurehead and did none too well at it. He was saved by purchase of the oil company by outsiders who kept him on as a nearly non-functional figurehead.

Last year he apparently made $18,000,000 from the sale of an athletic team. But where did the original money come from? It was largely the result of payment for his serving in figurehead positions for being a Bush. It was the result of cushy positions and privilege. Bush has never used hard minded grit to build anything starting at the bottom.

The Texas governborship is another cushy illusion. The previous governor, Ann Richards, was a former drunk with a course mouth who sounded as if she still had a load on. Her raucous iconoclasm held immediate attention and amusement, and may have originally gotten her elected, but was not the type of thing that wears well over time. She was not a strong candidate for reelection.

Texas is a state where many people are of similar mind. To become governor of that state requires little more than to drift along with that mindset while showing easy-going affability and personal appeal. Texas has its own distinct culture that is distant from national issues. Indeed, the Texas mind is two steps away from secession from the Union. One does not need the capability of arguing the nuances of Marxism versus free enterprise with the likes of Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, Bella Abzug, Teddy Kennedy, or leading figures in the national media to become governor of Texas. It's a position of ease, with little contention to face, where one merely presides over continuation of the machinery of the status quo. It requires none of the intellectual or tempermental capabilities needed for present national leadership.

In short, all manner of things have come to George Bush without effort as people have sought him out to bestow them upon him merely because his name was Bush. He had but to pick and choose. That he has chosen among those unearned gifts and positions has given him the illusion of success.

Gorge Bush was sought out and offered a presidential candidacy on the same basis as he has been offfered everything else. It was an acceptable gift. My observation at the time was that he was prepared to coast into the presidency on the primary basis of pleasantness and family background that had served him in the past. It became obvious that he lacked the serious development of mind or ideological depth necessary to define national issues or defend himself or defend the Republic. He was out of his depth, rootless, and lost. It was beyond remedy of cramming sessions.

In the Republican primary debate one Tuesday last spring both Bush and McCain believed they were clever in drowning out Alan Keyes when he called for substance during the debate. It was a short term win for Bush, but a long term loss for the country. Bush won. He thought.

Bush had media support for doing it. The only person who was a threat to the leftist media, and the left, was Alan Keyes. If Keyes attained a threshold of visibility, he would become a major force the left would not be able to subdue, and they knew it. The left would lose control of American politics and they knew it. Keyes was put out of commission under the guise of giving the country an electable voice of moderation, Bush.

Bush went into the presidential campaign with a 14 to 16 point lead in the polls supported by people desperate to vote against the Clintons and Gores. He had but to keep half of it to win a landslide.

As he had done in the primary, he dodged seriousness and focused on trivia. This gave people nothing of content and no alternative to vote for, along with serious reason for mistrust and disgust. The initial overwhelming support for Bush began to disintegrate at a rate of about one and one half percent per week as Bush became a contentless semi-imitation of Gore, who was playing a similar game with the people. It lost Bush the election in the third lowest percentage turnout of eligible voters in an American campaign in history.

Make no mistake about it, George Bush lost the election regardless of the electoral count. Several critical Republican senate seats were lost. In non-presidential election years public turnout is low. In presidential years turnout is higher and senate and congressional seats ride on presidential candidate's coattails. People who go to the polls to vote for president,l also vote for senators and representatives.
Bush's soon to be arch rival, if he manages to take office, Hillary Clinton, was elected without opposition from Bush, and with lame opposition by Lazio. Bush lost catastrophically.

Many try to argue Bush's loss is an artifact of vote fraud. While the electoral vote system in this unusual case produces a condition where the theft of 25 votes in a state is crucial, the Bush loss was not an election day fraud phenomena. The most reliable polls showed Bush's poll leads continually deteriorating, while Bush supporters steamed at the accurate Zogby poll which showed Bush in serious trouble.

The reason there are manipulations attempting to qualify or disqualify 25 votes tp determine whether Bush takes office in the face of total popular vote loss is because too many people thought Bush's antics weren't worth going to the voting booths for. People didn't think it was worth while to show up at the polls to vote for Bush. They stayed home.

The problem wasn't vote fraud. The problem wasn't media bias, although it existed. Bush's ionane performance in the debates was enough to kill him. Had he taken Keyes' plea for substance seriously, Bush might have won the election. If Bush's evasiveness and ineptitude had been a planned tactic to avoid issue land mines during the campaign, it would have been an insult to the American people. But there is no indication that such was not a matter of the boy's being that stupid and undeveloped rather than a campaign ploy. Sometimes it's hard to discern the difference. At some point the practical consequence of that difference eventually becomes inconsequential.

The initial massively overwhelming support for Bush was built upon the hope of serious confrontation and incisive refutation of the Hillary, Bill, Gore political axis. As Bush's evasiveness and compromise precluded any such prospect, Bush's prospective support felt betrayed, and hence shortly disappeared. People who were tired of the radical left awoke to find they had no one to champion their cause. This left us with what we have today, a man who alienated his initial overwhelming support, who is now desperately attempting to enter office through manipulating the intricacies of the electoral college. I frankly have little sympathy for Bush in this.

Bush began with overwhelming support, which he needed and would have put him in office, betrayed that support by moving left to get votes he didn't need and at best could only hope to share with Al Gore by compromising principles and generally making an ass of himself. This seems to be one of two repetitive patterns in Republican politics. The second pattern is to draw the absurd conclusion that this somehow proves conservatism can't win and therefore the process must be repeated with a more pronounced compromise to the left in the next election.

Bush and his minions have done a great disservice to America. For my part, I want to see Bush banished back to Texas. I don't want to see or hear him for the remainder of either of our lives. If Gore becomes president as a result, so be it. It's time to stand up like men, quit whining, take responsibility for actions, and admit Bush et al. sabotaged certain victory and worked to produce that result. You deserve what you earn in this life. That is what you have earned. Fight it and you will earn Hillary as president in 2004.

The next candidate who is to be a serious alternative to the radical left must be a teacher who confronts and defines issues, and who confronts and and defines alternatives to liberalism. Bush seems to lack that capacity, to lack motivation, and to lack the temperament to do so.

Wanting to become president, or other people's wish that one might become an alternative to the radical left is not sufficient to entitle one to be president.

[This message has been edited by Munro Williams (edited November 15, 2000).]
 

George Hill

Staff Alumnus
Robert L. Kocher wrong.
The only people that want Gore are the city dweling liberal fools that bask in the enlightenment of promoting everything distained in the Bible, Tora, and Koran... They are secluded inside big cities where like sheep they feel safety of numbers.
One day a pack of wolves will enter these cities Hell will be demanding its payment.

[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited November 16, 2000).]
 

RLK

New member
To Hill and others--

I find Al Gore to be a left wing zombie who is off in space somewhere.

However, please keep your eye on the ball and not the diversion.

If you think you've seen bad, you haven't seem bad until you get Hillary as president in 2005. Her "village" will be imposed as a concentration camp. That's what this is all about.

Bush has shown he can't even do a credible job confronting the zombie Gore. The Hillary machine with the help of the leftist media will run over him like a bug in the road. She's already being built up and magnified in the media.

This is your worst enemy.

We have been manuevered into a spot where we are going to lose something. There's no way out. But for Christ sake think ahead to 2004.

Robert L. Kocher
 

Munro Williams

New member
George,

In what respects do find Kocher's analysis faulty?

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ALARM! ALARM! CIVILIZATION IS IN PERIL! THE BARBARIANS HAVE TAKEN THE GATES!
 

Payette Jack

New member
Mr. Kocher,

I didn't realize you were a TFL member. I've been a big fan for about a year now.

George,
++++++++++++
"Bush began with overwhelming support, which he needed and would have put him in office, betrayed that support by moving left to get votes he didn't need and at best could only hope to share with Al Gore by compromising principles and generally making an ass of himself. This seems to be one of two repetitive patterns in Republican politics. The second pattern is to draw the absurd conclusion that this somehow proves conservatism can't win and therefore the process must be repeated with a more pronounced compromise to the left in the next election."
++++++++++++++++++++
That pretty much says it. The left has 'us' beat because we let them control the debate (it was never "if" the elderly were getting prescription drug entitlements, but "which plan", remember?) and also the bizzare reliance on public opinion polls and focus groups in politics (I used to be in advertising. Polls and focus groups are easily manipulated and people lie on surveys).

Bush went up against a moronic block of wood who possesses a near schizophrenic personality(ies?) and barely pulled a marginal electoral victory (which may not even hold up). And let's not forget that Gore himself is dang near as indictable as Clintoon is. The dirt on the entire administration is barely beneath the surface and yet nothing seems to stick or leave lasting stigma and the hapless Repubs can't even seem to get the ball rolling.

Bush's biggest enemy is himself, the weak ideology of the Repub party, and a lack of fundamental core values. His only agenda was trying to play it safe. I don't know how many "stayed home" as RLK suggests, but some (including myself) went Libertarian this year. I just couldn't vote for someone giving me the 'light' version of the Dem platform.

For what its worth, and nobody has talked about this much, but between Gore and Nader, SOCIALISM as a political philosophy won the election.

I have to disagree about Hillary in 2004 though. She's not as good as Bill at feigning the "concerned, compassionate, benevolent, folksy (wo)man of the people" bit. Her real persona is pretty close to the surface. The media gave her a pass in New York, but I don't know if she could stand scrutiny at a national level without the veil slipping. Of course, I didn't think we'd ever see a 2nd Clinton term either.

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Formerly known as Jack 99

"The Constitution is the fundamental law for the federal government. If that government's own courts can arbitrarily change it's meaning, the government becomes a law unto itself --- that is a lawless government, a government of men, not of law." -- Joseph Sobran

"But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime." -- Frederic Bastiat
 

George Hill

Staff Alumnus
"George Bush has a spotty history..."
So does everyone else. I dont know anyone who is perfect. What's the point?

"It was also that way with his father... " This is not true.

"Last year he apparently made $18,000,000 from the sale of an athletic team..."
So Bush is to be blaimed for being raised by a wealthy family and for having owned and sold a Pro Team? SO WHAT? There are lots of people in politics that have never wanted for money.
I suppose that GORE is more VALID as a candidate because, to quote STEVE MARTIN in the movie THE JERK, he "Was born a poor black child"? I thought that was Jimmy Carter.

"The Texas governborship is another cushy illusion..."
I have never heard of being Governor as a CUSHY job. Sure its not DIGGING DITCHES for a living... But surviving political knife fights is a harder job than what I have.


"The previous governor, Ann Richards..."
***? SO? What does this have to do with Bush?

"Texas is a state where many people are of similar mind..."
Which is why Texas remains one of the finest states in the nation with a huge BS meter.
So far this critic has yet to spew one valid point.

"In short, all manner of things have come to George..."
Same with GORE, CLINTON, KENNEDY... What does this have to do with anything? GWB has been in the right place at the right time... Same recipie for success most people have.
Still no point.


"Gorge Bush was sought out and offered a presidential candidacy on the same basis as he has been offfered everything else..."
I disagree. Bush was positioned well as the Governor of TX with strong backing. It made good sense that he was selected as the Republican Candidate. There were other Candidates to select from - But Liberals have short memories when it suits them... I remember the Republican Primaries. Do You?


"Bush went into the presidential campaign with a 14 to 16 point lead..."
Where is the critics point? What is wrong with that?

"As he had done in the primary, he dodged seriousness and focused on trivia..."
I disagree - he spend a good deal of his time trying to keep from getting talked over by Gore who dismissed debate rules whenever it suited him - just like he is doing now in the Florida recounts. NOBODY can dodge issues like a Liberal Democrat... Every press confrence and every question is met with nuthin but a STINKY SMOKE SCREEN to cloud the issue and change the subject and lay blaim on something else other than taking it on the chin and answering a direct question.

"Make no mistake about it, George Bush lost the election regardless of the electoral count..."
This is untrue. Bush has won the election 3 times. The so called Popular Vote is jilted. Take a look at the County by County vote map. While big cities voted Gore... It more than proves that the nation does not want AL GORE as a President.
Should there be a National REVOTE - Gore would have lost and been buried by the Bush landslide.
Besides, The Electorial College has been the way we have elected presidents since the beginning. Its the constitutional way. Why is this an issue all of the sudden? It wasnt a concern when Clinton won... Oh - my bad - its now working against the Liberals this time.

"Many try to argue Bush's loss is an artifact of vote fraud..."
Hmmm Thats funny... It has been held that a recount only reafirms the initial vote... yet Gore GAINS 2,200 votes? Statisticians liken this to being struck by lightning 30 times in a row... Right. Gore is THAT LUCKY. In a pig's eye. Gore isnt lucky - he has an army of liars and cheats working full time for him.

"The initial massively overwhelming support for Bush was built upon the hope of serious confrontation and incisive refutation of the Hillary, Bill, Gore political axis..."
And with GOOD REASON! Next.

"Bush began with overwhelming support, which he needed and would have put him in office, betrayed that support by moving left..."
I dont see this that way. If it was Gore - it would be Bipartisan and a noble gesture... but since Bush did it - he is GIVING IN and weak. WRONG. This is typical of the Liberals to establish as many double standards as possible.


"Bush and his minions have done a great disservice to America..."
And what has Gore done? There are too many to list right now - short list campaining for donations from whitehouse offices, chinagate... I'll post a link to a list of offenses.


"Wanting to become president, or other people's wish that one might become an alternative to the radical left is not sufficient to entitle one to be president."
No. But AL GORE wants nothing else. He would burn down the nation just to rule it. He has no love for the people but a disire to control them. Clinton just wanted to live large... Gore wants TOTAL DOMINATION AT ALL COSTS! Damn the Expense! This is most freightening. Look at other leaders who wanted nothing of control. And look at the cost it had on the rest of the world. You know who I am talking about.

This twisting of the truth is tiresome and boring. Liberal prattle is unworthy of such attention. Liberal conclusions are skewed and bent to the disire of the liberal regurgitating it.
Robert L. Kocher is correct in the Hillary Threat... She is indeed a villan.



[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited November 16, 2000).]
 

Payette Jack

New member
George,

Those points of contention of yours are trees. Take a step back and look and you can get a glimpse of the whole forest.
 

George Hill

Staff Alumnus
Maybe so... but you get trees together and you have a forest.
Bush has something that other politicians dont have... a degree of honesty. He has consistantly taken the higher road at every issue.
For that, he is a bigger and better man than the rest.
Integrity is something that you either have or you dont. It isnt for rent or sale. Bush has it and Gore doesnt.
Simple as that.
 

Munro Williams

New member
George,

Over at Kodiac's Den I read something which now decorates my desk:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Robert Heinlein's works always have, for heroes, independent and capable people who have little concern for the opinions of others-- they're too busy getting the job done to care. His stuff was written in an age when such rational competence was the norm-- the "to be expected." Such is not the case today. The last President we had who Heinlein would recognize as a mature, capable adult was Ropnald Reagan, who was despised by the Republican establishment, as well as the leftist media and the left in general. Reagan didn't pander to the pathological delusions of the emotionally mangled and the psychologically crippled. He routinely thumbed his nose at educated idiots and their apologists, and in so doing personified the common sense and self-confidence which made the USA the home of the freest, strongest, most prosperous and law-abiding people in the history of the world. He demonstrated to everyone what happens when people practice the philosophy behind the Declaration and the Constitution. That was twenty years ago. A whole new bunch of kids have since graduated High School and are now in college, who haven't the foggiest notion of what American ideology is, besides something evil created by rich dead white men.

There now exists in the USA an ideological vacuum. There is no one in politics today who can clearly articulate the philosophy behind the Declaration, detail how it relates to the Constitution, and analyze, confront, and articulate any alternative to the liberal-socialist axis which threatens to devour us. Bush couldn't do it. He could not wipe the floor clean with Owl Gibbering Gore. He allowed Gore and the liberal-socialist axis to identify the issues and define the boundaries of debate. He accepted the premises of our mortal enemies, and then tried to make friends with them, essentially telling me and mine, and you and yours, by the way, to shut up, keep quiet, and blindly follow along. He provided no alternative. As a result, he lost the popular vote. If he becomes president he will be hamstrung trying to get the slightest initiative forward, in a sensitive and caring way, of course, because, goodness knows, we don't want to upset anyone, do we?Especially if they despise America and look at us with thinly disguised loathing. No, we've got to be sensitive and caring, because, after all, conservatives are compassionate too, aren't we?
Even that slogan insults us! It implicitly agrees with every foul, vulgar thing ever written by every Marxist punk theorist about how the USA was based on suffering and greed. This is no way to lead the country away from the hard left.

Bush couldn't pull it off. He ws incompetent. His presidency, if he achieves it, will be based on obtuse legal reasoning and no overwhelming groundswell of opposition to Clintonism. We won't have the numbers to roll back liberalism, and will be easy meat for Hillary in '04. If Bush can't unambiguously wallop Gore, you can bet the farm on Hillary cleaning Bush's clock. At that will be the beginning of the end.

But Gore will have the same problems as President, and the added bonus will be that Hillary won't run against him in '04. She'll wait until '08. In the meantime we can get a real mature, thinking, competent, articulate person to carry the flag. Someone who can clearly teach this lost generation what Liberty means, why it requires responsibility, and in so doing, confound the liberal-socialist axis and, for the first time, put the Left on the defensive. Someone who lives up to the Heinlein quote above. Someone like Alan Keyes.

The fight isn't really Bush vs. Gore. That's a mere smokescreen/feint which camouflages the real battle: Hillary vs the USA.

That's the real issue, George. That's the real battle. This election is small potatoes, in comparison.

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ALARM! ALARM! CIVILIZATION IS IN PERIL! THE BARBARIANS HAVE TAKEN THE GATES!

[This message has been edited by Munro Williams (edited November 16, 2000).]
 

George Hill

Staff Alumnus
Guys - I agree with you on that point.
But Bush has far from lost the race.
He has done several things.
1. He has not lost the election yet. The counting isnt finished and the fat lady has not yet sung.
2. Because of his persistance and high standards, many democrats have pulled back. Including according to FOXNEWS.COM many KEY contributors to the DemocRat Party.
This damage is like an electrical burn... It might not look so bad right now - but the effects and damage felt are severe, run very deep and are long lasting.
Every thing Gore does now is Damaging Hillary's run in '04. Which actually isnt cast in Stone. She would first have to garner that spot through the Democratic convention. While she is a possibility - this fiasco in florida might turn the party off Hillary. Besides - If we dont get her in '04, we could get her in '08 or '12...
But the future is out there and the fighting we have is in here, now.
We lose ground now - we wont be able to stop her then.

[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited November 16, 2000).]
 

LawDog

Staff Emeritus
Now where have I heard this before? It all seems so familiar...

Hmm...let's see here...replace 'Governor of Texas' with 'Governor of California'...'good old boy' is in there...do we have 'friendly, but no brains? There it is...We've got 'never really worked', wait -- we've replaced 'B-Grade Actor' with 'Spoiled Rich Kid' -- it still works...'People seeking him out' is in there...Yes, yes, I believe...Watson...

It's the Ronald Reagan complaints all over again!

You missed a bit of the dust in one of the corners, though.

LawDog

[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited November 16, 2000).]
 

RLK

New member
Mr. Kocher,

I didn't realize you were a TFL member. I've been a big fan for about a year now.

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Kocher's reply:

One of my hobbies is free-style combat pistol shooting, although my eyes are petering out frome age and diabetes. I just acquire a stainless U. S. Arms 44 magnum wi was going to inquire about here.

I have several targes I practice on at distances of 75 feet of longer. To most people they look like 3 inch black circles. To me, one of them looks like Phil Donahues nose, and the other looks like Jane Fonda's behind.

Regards,

RLK

Alan Keyes for president in 2004 He defends the original intent of the constitution and second amendment rights with a thundering force that shakes the loose bolders from the mountains.
 

RLK

New member
Ronald Reagand wouldn't have wound up praying for 300 votes in a state hoping to counteract a 200,000 vote deficit in the national vote against a zombie. George Bush is no Ronald Reagan. I wish he were. If he were we wouldn't be in this hopeless situation

RLK
 

Long Path

New member
Yep, we Texans alllllll vote the same. We're pretty easily led down the garden path, too. Boy howdy. Someone hand me a banjo.


Something to recall. Ann Richards was extraordinarily popular. She was even liked by many Republicans in this state. What got her booted out was primarily the CHL issue. She refused to allow Texans to vote on a referendum over whether or not we should be allowed to be issued Concealed Handgun Licenses. George W. Bush stated during his campaign that he would sign the bill to enact CHL legislation into law, the minute it hit his desk as governor.

He won by a modest margin. The shooting population in this state came out to vote in a huge way, but this state does have a strong liberal side to it, to. In Houston, Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio, we sport some pretty heavy-duty liberals with capital "L"s.

It's wise not to cubby-hole.

W's record is not hugely impressive, but then, you have to reconsider: is he REALLY a lightweight thinker, or are you simply buying the news media's version of it. They cubby-hole, because it's the only way to get a story in within a 2-minute period. It's lazyness, basically. We don't want to be part of THAT.

I agree that it's important to look at our candidate's weaknesses as well as his strengths. But the business at the "debates" was playacting. Oh, sure, I watched, too. They were entertaining, just as they're supposed to be. But they did not, nor would they have, tell us very much.

You know, we can worry about Hilliary in 2004, and that's a worthwhile thing. But in the meantime, we've got a split Senate, and a near-split House. We NEED a President (and VP, which this term is nearly as important) who will decide in our favor. I'll cross the 2004 bridge when I come to it-- in the meantime, I need to live to see it. Life under Gore and his admins and judicial picks would be almost intolerable.

Given the choice between Gore and Bush, I chose Bush. What other choice did I have? What choice did YOU pick? The primaries were over half a year ago.

--L.P.

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited November 16, 2000).]
 

KenPaul

New member
<shameless opinion>

I somewhat agree with Mr. Kocher's assessment of the Republican's lack of spine. It seems like they are simply outmaneuvered by the Democrats in every significant confrontation. They cave in at the most baffling of times, and their lack of dedication to their cause is troubling. At least the Dems stick to their agenda - The fact that they ram it down our throats, and will do anything to further it, is their failing and dishonor, and is a disservice to the process of self-government.

Having said that, I don't believe this is strictly due to incompetence on the part of Republicans. What we have is one side (the Reps) who are trying desperately to play within the rules, and another side (the Dems) who don't even recoginze that any rules exist except when it suits their cause. It's no wonder the Reps seem like incompetent boobs.

I am not suggesting that the Republicans always play within the rules, but compared to the Democrats? Come on.

A note to friendlies: When I say "Democrats", read liberal Democrats. :)

</shameless opinion>

Now, on to GW.

I agree that Bush isn't an ideal candidate for President, but he is infinitely better than Gore. And that's the issue here, Bush -vs- Gore. Give me Bush's lack of experience and "ineptitude" to Gore's liberal agenda and corruption any day and twice on Sunday. If Bush weren't running against such a despicable candidate, I would have insisted he further explain his stances on national issues. But we cannot elevate popular issues over fundamental liberties, and since we generally understand Bush's positions on the issues, and that he will likely do no real damage, the first goal of this election became not having Gore elected to the White House. The lack of details on Bush's policies comes secondary to grave concerns over the damage Gore would do if he attained the Presidency. Knowing of Bush's shortcomings does nothing to change this.

Besides, it's not like there was much of a choice when the call came. Sure, there were third party candidates, but none who had even the most remote chance of winning the election. The outrage here is the stacked deck against any of the third party candidates to participate in the process. If Alan Keyes (or Harry Browne :), or Ralph Nader) were allowed to consistently participate in the process, his(their) message(s) would have eventually been heard, and the substance of the debates would have been enriched; So much so that third parties would have been taken much more seriously in other areas of the presidential race (which is, of course, why they weren't "allowed" to participate.) :mad:

Finally, Bush's lack of experience is understandable; He has not had the political experience to effectively play in the high-stakes arena into which he leapt. This, however, does not disqualify him from being there. The fact that he did so well on his first run at the White House, in spite of his lack of experience, speaks well of his ability to handle difficult tasks. A national presidential campaign is no Sunday picnic. Besides, the President doesn't stand alone; The people Bush chose for his vice and cabinet speaks well of his judgment. He has enough collective experience in those folks to handle any difficult tasks his administration may encounter. And gaining experience on-the-job is nothing unheard of either - every previous President has had to settle into the job, why should this Presidency be any different?

What I see in Bush is a man who has not yet found his stride under intense public scrutiny. He obviously has problems with public speaking that he will, if he wins the Presidency, have ample opportunity to overcome. And if he was "handed" the opportunity to be President, so what? If he does it well and with honor, more power to him (well, not the Presidency, him personally - I am a Libertarian after all. :))

Although I think Mr. Kocher's article was well done and he made his point well, in the end, I feel his arrows would be better aimed at the massive two-party juggernaught crashing its way through our political process crushing anything in its path.

Ken


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God so values free will that He gave us all the freedom to turn our back on even Him. If liberty is that important to God, it should be that important to us all...
 

Dennis

Staff Emeritus
All,

Well, y’all seem to be all over the map here.

You started out discussing Mr. Kocher’s fine article so I’d like to address that.
-----

Mr. Kocher,

I’m a naturalized Texan (yep, even got it in writing! :D ) but I was of the
old-style Texas mind clear back in 1946 (according to my Momma). There
was no other place which has ever appealed to me.

Please understand that I am pretty much a libertarian - so I had to join the
Libertarians. Now I don’t agree with them 100% either so don’t go off
half-cocked on me here. ;) I say that only so you can put into perspective
that I pretty much agree with what you say about Dubya.

Or at least the way Dubya appears. We don’t really know what Dubya CAN
do. We haven’t seen him face the fire yet so we don’t know whether he’s
tempered steel or soft black iron.

Dubya became our Governor largely because of Ann Richards’ elitism - that’s
true. But there were two big, BIG issues in the minds of Texans at the time:

1) Obviously, we pretty well rode that CHL horse question into the ground.
That “lady” with all the hair said she would not permit Texans to vote on
whether we could even consider the CHL concept. We don’t like tyrants down
here - especially when they’re supposed to be working for us. She began to
sound like one ‘o them there Yankee scalawags you hear about. (Present
company excepted, o’ course.)

2) Ms. Richards (BTW, “Ms.” is considered a swipe down here in Texas) tried
to initiate a program to teach kids about sex. Now I don’t mean kids in their
20s or even in their teens! I’m talkin’ about teaching kids from pre-school,
thru K-12 about masturbation, mutual masturbation (you know, like our
government, I guess), and some stuff she called “alternative lifestyles”. All
this under the general heading of “safe sex”.

Well, now ya gotta understand we ain’t no prudes down here in the Lone Star
State. But we don’t quite appreciate the government takin’ away everything
parents try to teach their kids. Kinda gave us what we call a “red butt”! Now
I understand that many parents, especially many in the big cities, don’t have
time for their kids - but kid-raising is OUR job, NOT the government’s job,
and assuredly not the job of a part-time drunk who’d be more at home
hustlin’ in a low-life bar. ... Sorry. Shouldn’t speak ill of the (choke) “lady”.

By the time Dubya came along, Ann’s sex courses had been squashed by the
people. I mean to tell you that there was darned near an honest-to-God
revolt down here!

So, when Queen Ann told us we couldn’t even vote upon considerin’ the CHL,
bumper stickers came out like stars on a Texas night! Most of ‘em read,
“Don’t let Annie get your gun!”

Buddy, she was on the hind spigot o’ the cow! I honestly believe we could
have elected a sway-backed mule to be governor in a race against Richards.

However, the best fightin’ man I ever met was pretty much a quiet man.
Nobody knew he had been one o’ them Marine instructors for fightin’ only
with your hands. (A couple o’ Bubbas found out one night, tho. Whooee!
They learned a pretty bloody, painful lesson: “Don’t mess with another man’s
woman!”)

In any case, we don’t know what Dubya CAN do. Remember General Ike?
He wasn’t the brightest candle in the cathedral either. But he sure could get
good men to work for him. Kinda like Reagan there. Trouble is, some of
Reagan’s boys weren’t really honest with Reagan. Ya know, you give ANY
person only part of the story and their decisions ain’t likely very sound.
Irangate’s an example. Judgin’ Dubya before he even DOES somethin’ is
another.

Dubya apparently has been advised that coming on strong against Gore
would not be the best tactics. So, he appears a lightweight (apparently to
both of us). But, to give a man a chance, we’re just gonna hafta wait and
see. Now don’t ya think that’s only fair?

Oh, one point we do disagree on. You mentioned, “Texas is a state where
many people are of similar mind.” Could be. But that’s only because we
have “many” people. The separation of views between choosin’ who’s gonna
run our lives runs deep in Texas - just like many other states. If you look at
the map of counties where each Presidential candidate won, you’ll find that
“many” big city types and the folks on the government tit voted for Gore.
Most of us, those who think we’re citizens rather than subjects, voted for
Dubya. We just don’t cotton much to the “patRON” concept. (Say it
Spanish-like.)

You’re right that “Texas has its own distinct culture that is distant from
national issues.” But that’s nearly gone now. When business went bad up
North we were graced with hundreds of thousands of immigrants from places
like Deeetroit, Michigan. Now I ain’t sayin’ they ain’t good folk; but they sure
ain’t Texans, they sure didn’t come here be Texans, and they flooded our
cities with the feeling that Big Government is necessary to be our Big Daddy.
Now *that* ain’t Texan, son!

“Indeed, the Texas mind is two steps away from secession from the Union.”
Well, I guess you’re right there. But, sorry to say, I guess that’s just a fond
dream....

Y’all take care now, ya hear! ;)

Don’t mess with Texas!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited November 16, 2000).]
 

Brett Bellmore

New member
Genuine intellectual lightweights do not earn MBAs from Harvard. Bush is no Hawking or Einstein, but he's far from stupid. On the other hand, he shows no real evidence of having a well thought out, consistant political philosophy. This is a negative, but still makes him far superior to Gore, who DOES have a well worked out political philosophy, and a really ugly one at that.

In my opinion, Bush will be a mediocrity as a President. There are worse things than mediocrities, as we may find out if this election goes to Gore.

I will say that there clearly IS something wrong with the Republican party, that it keeps producing such lousy candidates. In fact, I'll venture a guess at what's wrong with the Republican party: The Libertarian party! When the Libertarian party formed, it took with it much of the ideological heart of the Republican party. Which is why most of the really new, good ideas the GOP talks about, (But doesn't try to implement.) come from places like the Cato institute. Yeast is a small part of making bread, but you can't make decent bread without it. Neither can you make decent bread out of nothing but yeast, which is basically what the LP is trying to do, without great success.

Until either the LP attracts the mass following currently residing in the GOP, or the GOP attracts the ideological thinkers now in the LP, the Democratic party will face only mediocre opposition.

The only thing currently saving the country is that Democratic ideology finds such hostile ground in most of this country that even the media in their pockets, rampant ballot fraud in big cities, and mediocre opposition, is not enough to give the Democrats dominance. Take away even one of those three advantages, and the Democrats are toast.


------------------
Sic semper tyrannis!
 

Dennis

Staff Emeritus
Brett says,

“When the Libertarian party formed, it took with it much of the ideological
heart of the Republican party.”


Libertarians didn’t leave the Republican Party, they left us. They decided to
compete with the Democrats on their own ground. By playing in the same
league, Republicans became faux Democrats, subordinate to the Democrats’
superior experience and expertise as Socialists.

“Yeast is a small part of making bread, but you can't make decent bread
without it. Neither can you make decent bread out of nothing but yeast,
which is basically what the LP is trying to do, without great success. ... Until
either the LP attracts the mass following currently residing in the GOP, or the
GOP attracts the ideological thinkers now in the LP, the Democratic party will
face only mediocre opposition.”


Should the Republicans (stress the “Republic” part) ever become Republicans
again, there would be small need for the fragmented efforts of third parties.
Until then I agree the Democrats have little focused opposition. The
Democrats’ machine is too powerful.

But the third parties are right in getting out of the Republican Party. After
all, Brett, you don’t waste yeast on bad flour. ;)

As I’ve repeated to the nausea of most, it is lack of faith in the American
Way, inertia and greed that keep people in the Republican Party. If we voted
as Americans (rather than merely in opposition to the Democrats) we would
have two truly separate parties in America, rather than two wings of the
same oligarchy. And at the time, it is the Libertarians who have the high
moral ground. What a shame we belittle and degrade what we should, as
Americans, support.

I sure do agree with your post, Brett. And you sure stated it well! :)

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 

Dennis

Staff Emeritus
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog,
coon a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a
bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve
equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty
meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

In opposition to that, other concepts come to mind:

1) “Jack of all trades, master of none.”

2) Insects are not completely single-minded. They may have a specialized job or
task but every insect of which I’m aware has the first, primary, and all-important
task of preservation of the species. That’s frequently even stronger than
self-preservation. Most insects not only have a role of defense (or even offense)
but are engaged, one way or another, in pro-creation.

3) We’re not insects. We all have separate and distinct traits, abilities, interests,
concepts of success and failure, and, unlike all other creatures, we are aware of our
thought processes, our mortality, and can truly philosophize (although my poor
efforts many not qualify).

I agree that total specialization leads to uninformed decisions in life. But by
acknowledging our differences, working where we are most effective and efficient,
and by cooperating, we have dominion over most critters. While we should strive
to be well-rounded (I mean talents, Mykl, not our bodies ;) ), we become more
aware of our total environment. But it is nonsense to presume any one of us could
become optimum performers in every conceivable endeavor.

So, if it’s all the same to you, I’ll still take my kids to a medical doctor when illness, injury or the need for surgery arises. My wife and I will buy our food at stores rather than killing our own game or our neighbors for what they have on their table. I’ll go to an optometrist or ophthalmologist for eye exams and eyeglasses. I’ll trust my gunsmith to have more expertise than I in honing my revolver into a more accurate “piece”.

We should acknowledge the existence and expertise of others, but only by
specializing to some extent can we achieve real expertise. We each must find and
develop our own talents. Then we must learn to cooperate so we each benefit from
the expertise of our fellow passengers on this little spaceship Earth. ;)
 

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
A lot of folks don't understand some of the subtleties of governance in Texas. Decades back, a professional political advisor commented that if one would understand Louisiana politics, one should first become knowledgeable about Byzantine politics. After mastery of Louisiana politics, one was then ready to begin to learn about Texas politics.

In order to get anything through the Lege, a vast amount of bi-partisan cooperation is needed--unless there is a good working relationship between the Governor, the Lieutenant Governor (who has the most power, overall, of any elected official) and a strong Speaker of the House of Representatives. The Speaker has the second most powerful position.

Then, ya gotta know who's married to whom, or kin to whom, or who shafted whom in a business deal. And not just among the elected officials, but among the movers and shakers around the state.

If you don't know all that, I suggest never making a judgement call about how things work in Texas politics.

Bush's tenure saw some real improvements in several arenas. Wouldn't have been possible without some political skills and talents. And some of that skill and talent involves selection of advisors and assistants--which means judgement of other peoples' abilities.

Heck, we can't be totally stoopid down here; Mensa moved its headquarters to the Metroplex.

:), Art
 
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