Knock on my door at 11pm

[Rob228]

My Apartment complex has slowly been going downhill since I moved in a year and a half ago.

Actually, a little background about myself first, as I don't think I've ever really properly introduced myself here. I currently instruct at the USMC Basic Reconnaissance Course. I've been enlisted since very early 2001, served 5 years with 1st Reconnaissance Bn at Camp Pendleton (three Iraq tours there) then two and a half years with 3rd Recon at Camp Schwab Okinawa, now I'm back here at Pendleton instructing. I know my way around a carbine, long gun and pistol pretty well. Anyway, I live in San Clemente in a fairly low rent apartment complex to save on my BAH....

So, 11pm, my wife is asleep, I'm online buying ammo for a Ruger MKIII that I just started my CA 10 Day waiting period on. I thought I heard a very, very light knock at the door, which was confirmed by my trusty Cattle dog. I expect a few solicitors here selling coupons and carpet cleaning between 6 and 8 PM, but 11 is unheard of. I had the option of the 1911 in condition 3 in my coffee table drawer, or the 870 in condition 3 in a closet by the door. I pick up the 1911 and ask in a very calm, sweet voice "Who is it"? (you know the voice...) and hear a surprised voice answer "Johnny" . I do not know a Johnny. I rack the slide and engage the safety and answer the door with the pistol set up for a retention drill ( position 2 in a draw). The kid is already running as the door comes open, as I think he heard the slide rack. HE stops about 30 feet away and looks at me like he knows something that I don't, a big know it all grin on his face, and asks where Blake is. I know one guy named Blake, and I work with him, and he is about twice my size (I'm not small, 5'10 and 180), and he lives ten miles away, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't hang out with 15-18 year olds in my apartment complex. The kids eyes get huge as he sees that what he heard really was a slide racking as he notices what I am holding (not in any way pointing at him, still just in position 2, muzzle pointed downward).

It could have been an honest mistake, but what I see are these facts. A lot of us Marines live in this complex. There is a decent amount of crime here, but usually not by the Marines or against them. This is a holiday weekend and it is well known by the locals that we all have four days off. Typically, jarheads with 4 days off go somewhere that isn't home. This kid was not expecting a door to open.

Should I have gotten the pistol out? I feel I was justified. Did I need to go condition 1? Better 1 than three if I open the door into a threat. I did not hold the weapon on this kid, nor did I actively threaten him with it. All in all, I feel it was the right response, and I am almost certain this place was being cased out, as no one has EVER done this before, and I have been here a year and a half.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Sounds like a perimeter probe to me.

So, did you get a description into the hands of the apartment complex owners and the local police?

Do your door have one of those peep-hole devices?

Good going, Marine.

Lost Sheep

 

[Rob228]

I have a tiny peephole, and he was already beating feet by the time I opened my door. I doubt it was from my dog barking (she's 30 pounds but sounds a lot bigger) and almost certain is was the slide racking that did it, as he answered when I asked who it it was. Unless...... hearing a voice is what scared him. The apartment office will open very late tomorrow but I will be talking with them as soon as they do open, and I really do not want to bother the local police, as nothing actually happened other than someone knocking on the door softly late at night, but should I see him around my apartment again, the police will get a call.

I do have some sympathy for the local law enforcement as I know what its like to work long stupid hours, and this doesn't quite seem like something they need to be bothered with. Had he made any kind of threat, or threatening action then yes, but right now I think he is sufficiently scared as to leave my apartment alone had his plan been to see if I was home then rob it, or if it was an honest mistake then I am just the crazy neighbor, and I can live with that.

 

[Sefner]

Thank you for your service, sir.

I don't know if I would have opened the door at all, maybe put my foot behind it and cracked it a little. Some criminals knock so that you open the door, making it easier for them to force their way in. Probably should have asked for a purpose through the door. And a last name.

Some will probably say that racking the slide is a kind of "showing your hand" in a situation like this. Also probably not a good idea should you be under investigation (pre-meditation without real cause to believe you are in danger). But that's some people. A knock on the door at 11PM that is not someone you know is definitely cause for alarm. Especially because:

This kid was not expecting a door to open.

Why else would someone knock on a door?

Arming yourself is a very justifiable response in my opinion.

Other than the above, you handled it well. We can all now name one guy that won't be breaking into your apartment.

 

[Rob228]

Sefner,
I do agree with you, now that it is an hour later and I am thinking to myself, why did I open the door in the first place? Being an armchair quarterback I can safely say that he will not be breaking in later on, but yes, had it been a serious threat instead of the possible and probably teenager breaking in for weed money, things could have gone south quick. Again, being an armchair quarterback, I was set up had someone tried to force the door when I started to open it, as I had the pistol set up by my shoulder for a retention drill, and instinct should have put my left hand in their face while my right hand did its magic, but in hindsight, leaving the door closed would have been the smartest bet.

He won't be back though

 

[Glenn Dee]

IMO Good Tactics in a home Rob228

One point to everyone though... If, and when your suspicious of the people on the other side of your door. Always stand to one side of your door. And never look through the peep hole. Just as you can see out they can somewhat see in. Even when the hole is covered, they can see the change in light coming through it. No big deal if it's some kid leaving a flaming bag of dog poop. But if they are bent on more serious mayhem it will telligraph your position. It is simple to shoot through the door and eliminate you as a threat, or even crash in the door when they know your standing directly behind it.


Glenn D.

 

[teumessian_fox]

Should I have gotten the pistol out?

I've been there. Living in Modesto, about that time of night, some teenagers were looking for a party. I went to the door, racked a round into the chamber of my Ruger 9mm, and one of the guys outside said, "Did you hear that?!"

I opened the door but didn't let them see the weapon.

I'd be reluctant to actually let them see your weapon. Some punk could actually file charges for brandishing, terroristic threatening, etc.

 

[hank327]

I think you did okay but personally I wouldn't have opened the door. As others have pointed out that is what they may have wanted in order to rush you. I also wouldn't have allowed my gun to be seen. Now this kid knows you have a gun at your place and may come back for it later when you are not there. Or he may tell someone about the gun and they'll come for it. The fewer people who know you have guns the better, especially in apartment complexes.
I keep a S&W 642 snubbie as my door answering gun as I can have it in hand but in my pocket as I open the door. To anyone who sees me, it looks simply as if I have my hand in my pocket.

 

[Rob228]

You do bring up a great point, he does know that there is at least one gun in this apartment now. Good thing I'm not going anywhere for the long weekend.

 

[vytoland]

1. you opened the door?? bad move. a big part of your defense is eliminated.

if the unkown person, outside the door, starts to taunt you.....curse, give you the finger, etc. are you going through the door ? what do you think happens next?

 

[TXGunNut]

Give the OP a little credit, vyto. Feel pretty sure he can handle answering the door w/ a .45.
Sometimes, Sefner, a burglar will knock before breaking in. Burglars like unoccupied residences. OP's action was correct for a tentative burglar but not optimal for a home invasion attempt.
Peephole works best if it's dark on your side, BTW.
I generally don't answer the door, regardless of the hour. If I'm expecting company I'll greet them before they get out of the car. If I'm not expecting company they usually won't get an answer. If they decide to come in anyway I'll invite all my friends from the SO and DPS afterwards but it will be a working visit. FD may have a live patient to try to save, may just be a dry run for them.
Thank you for your service, OP, and thanks again for training the brave folks who follow in your footsteps.

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...my trusty Cattle dog..." Hard to beat a 4 legged alarm. Even a 30 pounder. Not that it matters. My cat does the same thing. Goes on 'red alert' facing the Apt door. Usually somebody in the hall or a pizza delivery guy with a flyer. Runs into the woodwork when there's an actual knock. Not quite the same on the 4th floor, in Canada, either.
"...about twice my size... " You really think that would have been an issue? Recon Marines being Recon Marines. Most likely a lost kid vs a B&E artist.
"...feel I was justified...already beating feet..." Slight bit of over reaction, maybe, given the kid's departure. Better safe than sorry though.
"...simple to shoot through the door..." That's about as stupid as one can get. Shoot a drunken kid looking for a party through a door and you're fornicated.

 

[BfloBill]

T. O'Heir-
"simple to shoot through the door"- The person who posted this was referring to the person outside shooting through the door when they saw the change in lighting behind the peephole, he was not suggesting that shooting through the door at the kid outside was the correct course of action.

 

[jborushko]

"...simple to shoot through the door..." That's about as stupid as one can get. Shoot a drunken kid looking for a party through a door and you're fornicated.

i think the poster meant that if it had been a threat then they would have shot through the door since they know where you are standing...

but the chances are low of THAT type of home invasion, especially in a apartment complex teeming with jarheads- unless of course it was a anti military thing, but again not eggs-actly the likeliest of scenario

- personally i always answer the door with a weapon (esp. at night), but then my friends ALL know to announce themselves before they come over, with a phone call - anybody else that knocks on my door is most likely somebody i dont want to talk too

**i mean 'jarhead' with respect

 

[3Bn/8th INF]

Good job

I wouldda busted a round off but since you're in California, I think you did well. I'm in Nevada, so we can take dudes out in our front yard. Your decision to refrain from contact and only deter was a good one. Good Job. Defending yourself in the States is almost like trying to defend yourself in Afghanistan, you gotta wait til they kill some of yer guys first, then you can shoot.

 

[Rob228]

T.O'heir,
The one guy I know with that name works with me, so I'm thinking it was pure coincidence that it was the name this kid came up with, and size wouldn't be an issue in that case ;-)
You are right on about the four legged alarm, she will be at the door sniffing if someone is even walking past then starts making noises if they come up to the door and finally a bark if they are right outside.

 

[TeamSinglestack]

/shrug

That's pretty much how I answer my door...

My firearms are hot (no youngins) so they don't get a slide racking warning, and I mask the firearm behind my hip.

I NEVER get the same solicitor twice for some reason.....

 

[siggygirl]

Rob228, thank you for your service and I hope you enjoy the rest of the weekend. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback after we make choices. Very easy for others to do this for you as well. It's good to get opinions for the next time but you did what you did, and it worked out. I'm not offering advice on the situation because I am in no position to do so. Just a pitch to go easy on yourself.

That being said, I'm learning from this thread. I haven't worked through the 11 PM knock yet either. We'd likely all choose a different course of action given differing circumstances, skills and liabilities.

 

[Mark]

I've been through this with a drunk looking for his GF. I was alone. Didn't know him or her. I arrived at the door in Condition One with my Gov't Model and a magazine on top of it. I opened the door as well. All the drunk could see was an empty apartment and me holding a magazine that didn't droop the way it should at the angle I was holding it. He realized I was holding something he wouldn't want to see clearly and left quickly. I had my foot against the bottom edge of the door to prevent further opening. I realized I should have waited for the cops and not opened the door not long afterwards.

You can put a piece of cardboard over the peephole so it stays dark all the time. When you get close to look out then move it. That way the peephole is always dark and folks outside can't tell if you're at the door.

 

[old bear]

Unless I’m expecting company I don’t answer the door after dark without a revolver in my hand.