Kids playing with guns.

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bushidomosquito

New member
We got back from dinner last night and the neighbors came over to tell us that an 8 year old girl about 5 doors down from my own was playing with a gun in her moms room and accidently shot herself in the head and was pronounced dead at the scene. The details came slowly from the news (I was going to include a link but there are many so just google "Grain Valley girl shot" if you want details) but it looks like a classic case of a loaded gun where kids can get it and the unthinkable happened. I say unthinkable because my home has a loaded gun and both kids know where it stays. There mother is no slouch when it comes to gun safety having taught firearms safety classes and we have both beaten the gun safety stuff into their heads. They won't touch them.

I can't help but wonder if the mother of this little girl thought the same thing. I have left my gun on the nightstand (among other places) and on the nightstand is where I have heard that this little girl found her parents gun.

Many factors have to be in place for this kind of thing to happen.

1. The gun has to be funtional (unlocked) and in reach of children.
2. The gun must be loaded or ammo present.
3. The child must be of a mindset to go poking around in "grown folks buisness" i.e. their stuff. I was this type of child. I understand. Our stuff is so much cooler than the nutered plastic versions that we buy for them.
4. The child must be devoid of any real fear of guns and unaware of the damage they can do. They must believe they can play with it without getting hurt or hurting someone else.
5. The child must be physically capable of operating the gun from whatever condition it is found in. A 3 year old is not able to rack the slide of a .45 super against a 22# spring but will have little trouble with the thumb safety and match trigger if you have done the hard part for them. They must also have the cognitive ability to operate the weapon even if by luck or determination. I have yet to meet a firearm or any tool that I can't soon operate without a manual. They're designed that way. Same was true when I was a kid.
6. The child must be devoid of adult supervision long enough to assemble factors 1-5 into a tragedy.

I rely only on my trust of the boys as well as their general disinterest and fear of firearms to prevent this kind of thing from happening to us. Enter one curious neighbor child into my home at the wrong moment and that plan is useless. After hearing this story I took the magazine out of my always loaded gun to add one more (pretty obvious) step to making it funtional but that seems like a minimal effort.

I would really like to hear what those of you with kids at home do to keep them or their friends from ending up like this. Quick access safes? Hiding spots? Lock them up? Fear of god?

And by the way, the family of this little girl has suffered the worst injury possible so no need to add insult to it.
 
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SilentHitz

New member
Since I don't have kids in the home, I won't chime in on the precautions.

I just want to send my condolences to the family...the loss of a child is hard to deal with under any circumstances, I can't even imagine how they are dealing with this. :(
 
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RickB

New member
I grew up in a house in which a loaded gun was the norm. I knew where it was, but because shooting was a bit of a family hobby, I didn't need to "play" with it in the house. There was no fascination with the "forbidden fruit", that there might be in a house where the guns are "hidden" (like any kid couldn't find it?). Of course, we were smart enough to not eat lead paint, put the cat in the microwave, etc., so maybe our house was an exceptional one?
I have no doubts about my own girls staying out of trouble with guns in our home, but I do have concerns about their friends. If I know we're having a guest, I do a sweep of the house, and try to put away holsters, and other stuff laying around, and lock up the guns.
 
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wayneinFL

New member
I keep any gun that isn't in use unloaded and locked in the safe.

I have two loaded revolvers in a separate lock box on top of my safe by the front door. I have a loaded (not chambered) shotgun, locked in a cabinet in the bedroom, and I always have the key to these on me. It takes a few seconds to access them, but I usually have something on my person anyway.

6. The child must be devoid of adult supervision long enough to assemble factors 1-5 into a tragedy.
Click to expand...

That's a few seconds of the gun is accessible and loaded. There isn't a parent who supervises their children 24 hours a day. You have to go to the bathroom and you have to sleep. So I really think the safest thing is to keep them all locked up.
 
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Sig-em

New member
My prayers and thoughts go to the family of this child and all those who have lost a loved one due to the mishandling of a weapon.

This has become to common over the last decade or so, that someones child is killed by a loaded gun in the house. Whether it is a neighbor child or a child that resides in the house. We need to educate our kids beginning at a very early age, kids need to these dangers. Anyones child could be at a neighbor or friends house and come across a gun. Whether that gun belongs to that household or some g-banger visiting. The best ammuntion is education. I was raised in a home with loaded guns. My kids were raised with loaded guns. Our grandchildren are being raised with loaded guns and it all goes back to education, from the earliest ages. Kids need to know the real dangers of touching/handling guns. And knowing that those guns are there and they are never to be handled. Educate for safety.

RC
 
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JWT

New member
Incidents like this are tragic and fuel the fire for gun control.

I grew up in a small Wisconsin 'farm town'. The typical farm house had a loaded double barrel shotgun behind the back door. We were taught never to touch, or go near, the gun. It was that simple.

Unfortunately times have changed significantly. Most kids are never exposed to firearms and have no respect for them. They're curious and that leads to problems.

I don't have any kids at home but I do lock all of my firearms in gun safes - just to be sure. And also for peace of mind when the grandkids visit. (And they have been taught not to handle guns).
 
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sophijo

New member
kids

If I'm not carrying it goes in the safe, next to bed, unlocked and opened day&night. Kids/grandkids around; locked.
 
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kristop64089

New member
B.M.
I live up here in Holt. 2 weeks ago over in Lawson(where I work) we had 2 brothers home from school(last day) They beat Ma and Pa home. Older bro was shooting shotgun off deck. Came in Unloading gun, shot lil' bro. Luckily Lil' bro made it.(but his life is forever changed)

All we can do as parents, is hope and pray we raised/taught them right.
I keep my 12 ga in a gun rack HIGH. Unloaded and locked. The key is close, in a locked drawer. But, I can get to full battery in less than 30 sec. My kids are 5 and 4. once they are old enough to reach the gun, The gun gets locked in the safe.

Kids are just too smart anymore, and parents are just to lazy. Society as a whole is failing their children. Maybe a little more discipline is in order.
Maybe the old days where children fear their parents is due.
Maybe these weak-assed parents that we have now should realize, we are not our childrens friends, we are their parents.

Our role as parents is to teach. Not just befriend. Our children are only ours for a little while. You can bet my children fear me(as they should) If I can't teach them right from wrong, and the consenqueces of such, then I have failed them!.

This is unfortunate it is the society we live in. I cried when I heard that on the news. My children are MY LIFE. and I will do EVERYTHING to insure their saftey. If this were to happen to me, I'm guessing I'd be lost forever.

THIS SHOULD BE A LESSON TO ALL, NOT JUST A SAD STORY ON THE NEWS.
PARENTS, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOU A**ES, AND GET INVOLVED WITH YOUR KIDS. DON'T BE AFRAID TO SHOW YOUR KIDS "TUFF LOVE" They'll thank and respect ya for it later....I know I did.
 
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ajaxinacan

New member
I would really like to hear what those of you with kids at home do to keep them or their friends from ending up like this. Quick access safes? Hiding spots? Lock them up? Fear of god?
Click to expand...

I keep my guns unloaded and locked up unless they are under my direct physical control.

I shoot with my kids regularly, and educate them on safety.

Did I mention the only time there's a loaded gun in my house is when it's under my direct physical control? Of course, sometimes I have to wear my gun until late at night, but that's the price of protecting my kids, 6 and 8.

I'll say a prayer for this family. I can't imagine their grief.
 
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homefires

New member
Yep! Education. I grew up in a house with firearms . My kid's the same. There's a pile of things that could have been done differently. Hind Sight is 20-20 Right!!!!
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
fear of God and DAD... I knew which guns were loaded from 5 years of age. I also knew that if a Boogieman came in while my sister watched us... I was required to engage.
Brent
 
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Sigma 40 Blaster

New member
I read Pax's site (corneredcat.com) well before I heard of thefiringline.com. I like how she states what her "normal" mode is, my "normal" mode, to the chagrin of my family, is the same.

I also will let my son (4 years old) look at or hold any of my guns at any reasonable time of the day. I will stop whatever I'm doing (unless it's super high priority work or washing dishes) to get whatever gun he asks for (he knows model name and caliber for anything I own), unload it, clear the chamber, and allow him to examine it. And yes, there are times when he wants to see every one of daddy's guns, including the AK and AR. I usually won't indulge ALL of that at one time.

More importantly I teach him how they all work. He is very intuitive and figures out stuff that blows my mind...he figured out how to open a locked bedroom door with a case knife, no one ever did that in front of him before. Ever. He might have seen it on TV but who knows. He knows slide, decocker, grip safety, trigger, slide release, magazine, magazine release...charging handle...all the functional pieces of a gun. He even knows the mechanics involved in discharging a centerfire round. And of course he knows the kids gun safety rules and the 4 rules for everyone.

He is physically not strong enough to cock a hammer, run a slide back, or even pull the trigger on anything except my XD or Mark III, but I have nightmares about stuff like that happening.

All of my handguns are loaded, every single one of them is either locked up in my safe or on my person in a holster. All of my rifles are unloaded, in a locked long gun box, with ammo/mags locked up in same box.

I have an Airsoft pellet gun about the size of a Bersa .380 that is his "real gun" and it lives with my guns in my safe. I have had to get on him to no end about muzzle and trigger discipline (it's hard to balance the fun of shooting a pellet gun with the hard line discipline of shooting a real gun...quite a few sessions have ended up with him being VERY mad at me but he can always tell me why his shooting session ended earlier than he wanted).

There was one incident in which he was at a relatives house and they came across a derringer under a sofa cusion. He did exactly what he was taught to do, run from the room and get a grown up after demanding that nobody touch it. I think education and sharing them with kids is the only way to get them to be safe and respect them.

I have taken him with the range with me a couple of times so he can shoot his pellets at "big boy targets". Other than a couple of jerks I have had nothing but good responses from others around us (I tell everyone to shoot as they would if he wasn't there...some just aren't comfortable for whatever reason). They will usually come look just out of general interest or maybe fear that the silver/orange thing in his hand is a real gun??

I am not going to say that anything you do can prevent any accident with a loaded a gun with the exception of having no ammo (or really no guns). All you can do is watch, teach them the best you can (the fun and scary part of shooting), and continue to watch them.

The effect of a .45 on a watermelon was pretty powerful to my son. I usually don't like shock techniques for teaching kids but he loved watching that melon blow up. Then I asked him what would happen if that hit a person he loved or himself. He understood what I was getting at immediately and spouted off the 4 gun safety rules...so I am pretty confident that he'll be OK. I'll just have to re-visit the effect of a handgun round on a human (he really believes the stuff on TV or that people will blow up if they're shot) when he's a little older but I think I'm happy with his misconception for the time being.
 
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rem870hunter

New member
my condoleces to the family of that child,i know what its like to lose a child. mine wasn't lost to a firearm accident. but was lost nonetheless.

i keep mine locked in a cabinet. if i am not home or in my room where it is. 7 kids here,youngest is 4.5. they know i have them,know they are locked up. they do NOT know where the key is or even what it looks like. they know that i lock my bedroom door when i go to bed and there is a loaded(mag tube only)shotgun within reach. it goes back in the cabinet before i leave my room or house to go to work or run errands.

they know if they want to see or handle them. all they have to do is ask. the boys know how to check the action to make sure its unloaded and clear. the girls have no interest in them. but i plan or taking them to the range one of these days, to show them how to use them the proper way. i have taken the boys a few times.

the fear of god,dad helped me to decide to not play. i got caught playing with one of his after unloading it completely. i couldn't get the ammo back into the magazine so i put the shells under his bed. he found out a few weeks later that his mag of 6 only had 3. i couldn't sit for a few months after that. i was taught that when he wasn't home i was the man of the house. protect mom and sister. listen to mom exactly,do not give her any lip. cause if i did i would get it when dad got home. i teach my sons that same thing. but because of the way things are nowadays. they won't be using dads shotgun. it may be louisville slugger.
 
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mvpel

New member
My carry sidearm, when not on my person, is kept in a GunVault four-button safe. The code to open it involves a sequence of button presses and chords which my 4yo son is physically incapable of performing.
 
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MacGille

New member
I taught all of my kids that all guns are loaded all the time. And they were. Now they are in a safe,(kids are grown and gone) to keep them away from burglars. I still keep a loaded 12 ga under my bed though. When they were still small I showed my kids what a center fire rifle did to a rabbit. From then on I never worried about my kids playing with guns. I know, it was drastic, but so is life. I did not permit them to have toy guns, and taught them that guns are not toys.

All of my kids are gun owners and shooters and so are their kids.:D
 
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rogertc1

Moderator
:)When my kids reached 4 i took them to a outdore range and helped them shoot a small H&R 22 pistol i had. I made it a point to shoot a bird...any bird and we would go down and look at the "pretty dead bird" as one of my daughters punned.
Now all my kids are out of the nest and my collecton fills one of their old rooms. Interesting how not one of the 3 care anything about guns.
 
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MrClean

New member
I have 3 girls... now 13, 16 & 17. They grew up around my weapons and totally understood how dangerous they were. At least as much as they could at early ages. heck, they use to help me reload and I explained all about it to them. My guns were kept in the house and my ammo locked up in the garage utility room for the longest. One exception was the one that I kept inside for protection. While they were little... it was easy.... everything up high and they could not get to it.

Then they began to grow up. I bought one of those keyless, finger touch, open in the dark boxes to keep my pistol in and still kept the magazine out. Takes me no time to load up if need be. The rest went into a safe.

Now that they are older, I'm not quite as concerned but still make sure there aren't any laying around, especially when their friends are over. Which is all the time. :) And all the boys KNOW me and KNOW not to screw up over here.

heehee All you have to do is smack one of them one time.... the rumors continue and you have no issues for years to come. LMAO
 
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Derius_T

New member
First, my prayers and sympathy for the family.

My thoughts on this run along the lines of Sigma 40 Blaster. All of my kids have been taught what guns do, how they do it, and how to handle them properly. It gives them an understanding that this is NOT the same as their toys, and they understand that it is a very dangerous tool if handled improperly, and can kill.

They have fired all kinds of guns, and they clearly understand the damage that they do. We we at the family range at a graduation party saturday, and alot of the family were doing some friendly competition shooting. It really made me laugh, but proud when my 8 year old son saw one of my cousins girlfriends handling a gun improperly, and really dressed her down for it right then and there.

The best way to keep this type of thing from happening with a child, is to teach the child the difference between real and toy, and make sure they know beyond a shadow of a doubt what these tools are capable of. This takes the wow or cool mystery factor away from the gun. If you are unable to teach your children properly, then lock the guns up tight. Or if neighborhood kids or other kids are over, lock the guns up tight. Not every kid is going to be as informed as yours. In fact, most aren't as a general rule.
 
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