KelTec P3-AT vs. NAA Guardian 380

[ZBoater]

I am interested in hearing from those who have shot both, what are your opinions on accuracy and recoil? (I found the thread on the .32 - I am interested in hearing from owners of the .380 flavors of both).

I know there are a lot of KelTec fans out there, and that the Guardian is heavier, but I just cannot even get the two fingers below the trigger finger firmly on the KelTec grip. I am assuming that the heavier weight of the Guardian means less recoil, but at that size, does it matter? The Guardian just feels better in my hand, but I can't find anywhere local to rent and try out both. Any other comments besides weight/size comparing the two guns will be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[pocketgun]

The Kel-Tec P-3AT has a locked breach design, which helps with the felt recoil. NAA is blowback but heavier. I have heard the felt recoil on the NAA is higher but haven't shot it myself. The NAA is shorter through the grip, so if the Kel-Tec doesn't fit, the NAA isn't going to either. Finger extensions are available for both, which may help.

 

[michael t]

The weight difference alone is enough to get the Kel Tec. If going to carry that much weight get a snub nose S&W. I wanted a Guardian till I picked one up no thanks Weight and trigger KT wins hands down

 

[pocketgun]

I wasn't going to mention the weight difference except for how it pertained to the recoil.

As far as renting one that is going to be difficult. Few pocket pistols can survive for very long as a rental gun - they just aren't made for it. Your best bet is to post your city and state and see if any forum members might meet you at a range someday and let you try their own personal pistols out.

+1 on the KT trigger being much better. In the NAA's favor, it does have some nice optional night sights (Gutter Snipe), if that matters to you.

 

[mfree]

As for the range gun comment, the keltecs are lasting longer than the NAA guardian did. The takedown button sheared off our guardian after ~1000 rounds, the keltecs keep going.

 

[threegun]

Keltec hands down. The kel-tec is more accurate and recoil is about the same. The keltec is by far easier to carry which even if all thing were equal is reason enough to go with the keltec. After shooting both it was a no brainer. After continuously shooting the Kel-tec nothing has changed for the worst.

 

[leadcounsel]

Never shot the Guardian. I considered it but the purpose of a pocket pistol is lightweight and small. The Guardian seemed to heavy.

I bought a 2nd Gen P3AT. I have so many complaints with this gun that I finally sent it in for warranty work.

The gun routinely failed to feed, failed to eject, and the mag release was so sensitive that the mag often fell out while carrying the pistol so as to make it in operable after the first shot. I cleaned it often and put a few hundred rounds through it, but got a jam about 10% of the time.

I should have it back this week as they promise a 3 week turn around.

To Keltecs credit, they paid for shipping for the P3AT to them and will pay return shipping and free warranty work. I'm hoping for an improved pistol when I get it back.

To be objective, I have a good friend with a 1st Gen P3AT that doesn't have any problems.

Would I buy another one? Maybe, but only if I needed DEEP concealment in a pocket pistol. I think it's a REAL crapshoot with Keltec. I would NOT buy a used one b/c it probably has irreparable problems.

If it works I'll be excited, if it doesn't work it's getting traded in for something slightly larger and proven, like a Bersa Thunder or PPK.

My next BUG will likely be a revolver for reliability.

 

[threegun]

I have sold many p-32's and a few p3at's with nary a complaint. Several coworkers own, with great joy, kel-tec pistols and rifles. I think you will find your returned pistol a perfect performer once returned. Kel-tec has an outstanding reputation for customer service. I sent them a pistol which a coworker disassembled to install an inside the pants clip only to incorrectly do so. Unable to reassemble the pistol it was shipped back to the factory and they reassembled it and paid to ship it back despite the fact that the problem was self induced. Another time I sent them a sub2000 rifle that wouldn't accept preban Glock mags even though it would work fine with the new 10 rounders and the 33 rounders. The problem was that the preban mags were slightly shorter and wouldn't engage the mag catch. It was fixed and returned in 5 business days......wow.

 

[postal1911]

i have a p32, but have had the Naa 380.
I was at the time comparing it to a simular sized colt mustang
the Naa had alot more recoil than the colt
others who have shot the Naa have said the same
my kel tec is a very light recoil in 32
heard the 380 is just a bit more
oh the mustang won hands down

 

[45reloader]

KT all the way

 

[dirksterg30]

If you go the Kel-tec route, you could always add a finger extension:

 

[leadcounsel]

I got the P3AT back from KT in 26 days. Work order said that it replaced the faulty slide, faulty frame, and faulty magazine spring. So, basically I got a new gun!

This one functions well. Very accurate (as was my other) as far as practical accuracy. Feeds brass well except it does fail to eject Wolf regularly.

If you need a tiny pocket pistol, I would recommend this gun with brass shells and lots of "working the bugs out" before you carry it.

However, if you can carry something slightly larger, I would opt for a 100% reliable revolver.

 

[BeornLS]

I have owned both

I own both and have shot both. I put about 2/3 a box of rounds through the Guardian and my hand was numb. Recoil was terrible on it, felt like I was trying to keep a firecracker from popping everytime I shot it. The Kel-Tec has a much lighter recoil to me, I'm sure it's in the design. Also, for the record I can shoot the Kel-Tec much more accurately than the Guardian.

Please don't get my wrong though, the Guardian is a fine little gun, very well made and very good fit and finish. Just for all practical purposes the Kel-Tec just fit the role better, so it became my daily backup gun. I still own the Guardian though, even if only to take it out of the safe once in a while and admire how pretty it is.

 

[MeekAndMild]

In .32 ACP Keltec has less felt recoil for some reason, possibly because the Guardian has such a small grip and I carry the standard number of fingers.

BUT there is an NAA Guardian available in the .32 NAA chambering which has a longer grip. It still has more felt recoil but this particular caliber is a necked cartridge which greatly accelerates the bullet, more like shooting a .380.

Click here for the Mad Ogre's review of the .32 NAA Anybody who'd print a webpage colored dark green on black has got to be mad.

 

[pocketgun]

NAA makes two frame sizes: .32NAA/.380ACP and .25NAA/.32ACP. In other words, the .32NAA isn't going to have any appreciable difference in construction when compared to the .380ACP model. The larger frame NAA is 18.72 ounces empty - only 1.03 ounces lighter than a Glock 27 in .40S&W. If I am going to carry something heavy...

 

[MeekAndMild]

I could see some definite advantages in terms of feeding reliability with the .32NAA over the .380 and wish Kel Tec would come out with a .32NAA offering. I've really got to find somebody who'll let me shoot their .380 Guardian to see if it has recoil more like the P3-AT or the .32NAA. It remains odd to me though that the two .32ACP offerings should have so much difference in perceived recoil considering the other similarities.

(This .380 vs .32NAA feeding difference seems similar to the one between .357Sig vs .40 S&W. Also, like some .40 S&W guns the Kel Tec .380 has a partially unsupported chamber though I've not detected any problems with bulging cases using regular ammo. If I were looking at the Guardian I'd want to check out this factor if I intended to shoot +P.)

Zboater, I hope this recent digression hasn't been too off topic. The problem here is I've shot all of them except the .380 Guardian, so in the end I'm no more experianced than you. My impression is that the .32NAA is the best of the 4 I shot, though I've never owned one, only shot one at the range.

 

[amd6547]

Neither one. Polish P64 in 9mm makarov. More powerful cartidge, small enough for easy concealment, accurate enough to hit a pop can at 25 yards with every shot, forged steel. $150.

 

[pocketgun]

I could see some definite advantages in terms of feeding reliability with the .32NAA over the .380 and wish Kel Tec would come out with a .32NAA offering. I've really got to find somebody who'll let me shoot their .380 Guardian to see if it has recoil more like the P3-AT or the .32NAA. It remains odd to me though that the two .32ACP offerings should have so much difference in perceived recoil considering the other similarities.

The advantage of the bottlenecked cartridge is kind of a non-issue to me, as a pocket pistol isn't something that should ever need to be used under adverse environmental conditions like mud, sand, or extreme crud due to lack of proper cleaning. The .380ACP feeds 100% in my Kel-Tec, or I wouldn't carry it.

BTW, Kel-Tec did make a tiny handful of .32NAA uppers for the First Gen P3AT - mine feeds great, but no better than my .380.

One huge advantage to the .380 vs the .32NAA is the cost and availablity of ammo. .380 is $11-$12/box of 50 (often less), and can be found almost anywhere. .32NAA is only made in any quantity by CorBon, is hard to find, and will run you $13-$14/box of 20 for the 60gr JHP. They do make a 71gr FMJ (part of their Performance Match line) that is $26.38/box of 50, but the only place I have seen it is the internet. If you are planning to practice with your pistol on a regular basis, the ammo issue is something to consider. Handloading is certainly an option, with dies and brass available HERE.

(This .380 vs .32NAA feeding difference seems similar to the one between .357Sig vs .40 S&W. Also, like some .40 S&W guns the Kel Tec .380 has a partially unsupported chamber though I've not detected any problems with bulging cases using regular ammo. If I were looking at the Guardian I'd want to check out this factor if I intended to shoot +P.)

This isn't a problem in the lower pressure .380ACP or .32NAA, AFAIK. The unsupported chamber helps with reliable feeding, but any SAAMI spec load isn't going to be a problem in regard to the chamber/ramp design. SAAMI doesn't have a "+P" standard for .380ACP, so when you see it on a box (CorBon or Magtech) they are just using it for the marketing value. They term it a "higher pressure than typical" load or something to that effect, but it still falls within the SAAMI standards.

 

[pocketgun]

Neither one. Polish P64 in 9mm makarov. More powerful cartidge, small enough for easy concealment, accurate enough to hit a pop can at 25 yards with every shot, forged steel. $150.

With all due respect this pistol isn't even in the same league as far as its ability to be concealed.

NAA Guardian/Kel-Tec P-3AT/P-64
Length 4.75"/5.16"/6.30"
Width 0.93"/0.77"/1.20" (est incl grips)
Height 3.53"/3.52"/4.60"
Weight 18.72 oz/8.30 oz/20.9 oz (est, 21.9 w/mag)
Caliber .380ACP/.380ACP/9x18 Makarov

9x18 is marginally more powerful than .380ACP, but again given the size/weight of the P-64, a Glock 27 (.40 S&W) would seem to make more sense for CCW given the power/weight tradeoff.

edited for typo

 

[blackdog720]

I recently bought a KT P3-AT. I have shot about 250 rounds through it. The last 100 rounds seem to have the gun "broken in". Limp wristing may cause a FTE. Keep a firm grip on it and it shoots very well and by adding a dab of glow-in-the-dark paint to the front sight, pretty darn accurately. I like it because I carry it with a round in the chamber without fear of accidential discharge. I should note that I keep it in a pocket holster that shields the trigger.