kB? only with Glocks?

[spacemanspiff]

okay, it seemed like a good time to start a flame war, so here goes:

does the kaBooms only occur in Glocks? i have heard of several incidents but from no other manufacturer. based on the varying accounts, it seems like it happens with factory and reloads, so shouldnt it happen in other guns as well?

 

[Handy]

Catastrophic case head seperation CAN happen with any auto, and has. You'll find mention of them on this board, but most often with shady loadings.

The interesting thing is you didn't hear about them too often until the .40 caliber Glocks were introduced.

Some would say this is simply because Glocks are so common that there are more reported, but it happens to the same percentage of guns as other brands.

.40 could be the culprit. The Hi-Power shoots a cartridge of about the same working pressure (9mm), yet has little history of this kind of thing in it's 65 years of use.

But you also hear of KaBooms in .45 Glocks as well. Strangely, .45 is a low pressure round. 9mm Glocks have almost no instance of KaBooms, despite high pressures.

Here is the most contested factoid: Glocks will fire further out of battery than most other autos. 3 Glocks that I've tried will detonate a primer with the slide @ 1/8" from full forward. An HK, Walther and 1911 I tried would drop the hammer at less than a 1/16", but didn't impact the firing pin.

Everything posted herein will basically debate these points. Make up your own mind. There are no good statistics to refer to. Glock doesn't release them and police agencies don't tabulate them. Add to that, the police don't fire as many rounds per gun as many Glock owners do, so one would expect far fewer occurances in police use, despite common issue.

 

[spacemanspiff]

i was kidding when i said i wanted to start a flame war, so please, dont hurt me if this causes a big debate.

i think i have come across as many anti-glock shooters as i have pro-glock shooters so far. personally, i think my first handgun will be the steyr m40 and if i am really good, the m9 as well.
i've shot the Glock 19 and while i did like how it felt, am just a little nervous about a handgun that doesnt have a manual safety. however, i dont think that will prevent me from purchasing a glock in the future. and this topic of the case head seperation being reported mostly with glocks is making me want to do some more research into it.

does anyone else have any input?

 

[Kermit]

I use to work at a range and I've seen a few models kaboom. I've seen an off brand 1911 blow up, a S&W 45, a couple of Glocks, a Beretta and a few RUger autos KABOOM. For the most part, poor quality reloads were to blame.
Like they say...GIGO...Garbage In, Garbage Out!

 

[RON in PA]

Unfortunately, no one has any statistics to show that any brand of handgun is more prone to blow than any. Maybe such data does exist, but the manufacturers and ammo makers are not going to make it public knowledge.

I will make the statement that if you put bad ammo(esp. double charged) in a gun you stand a good chance of blowing it up whether it's a Glock, 1911 or a Smith wheel gun. Back in the 1970's there was a spate of 38s blowing up with wadcutter loads. The cause: double charging.

If you are afraid of autopistols without safeties, are you afraid of revolvers?

 

[Ben]

I was curious what all these rumors amounted to last week when I shot my G-27 for the first time last week.

It appears to amount to nothing. The cases were slightly out of shape, but not at all close to the breaking point. From as much as people moan about their cases, I was expecting to see THROUGH the cases after being shot but you can barely tell they are used except for the dented primer and the flattened side of the case on the higher pressure rounds.

I used both Federal Hydra-Shoks 165's and CorBon 150s. The Corbon had significantly more POP to it, but remained completely reliable.

I guess a good rule of thumb is to NEVER shoot a reloaded 40S&W case in a Glock... Simple enough if you ask me. I'm going to stick with the lighter bullets to help reduce the risk.

Ben

 

[dsk]

To me, the Glock kB issue is just like the Beretta slide breakage issue. Way too much politics involved to be able to sort through all the biased crap and find the truth.

 

[JohnKSa]

Just in the last couple of months on The Firing Line there have been posts on kaboomed autos of the following brands.

Custom 1911
Glock
Walther (same gun twice)

And maybe others that I've forgotten.

 

[ryucasta]

The reality is that factory Glock barrels have unsupported chambers. This leads to a potential problem due to the lack of metal around the base of the cartridge. If your shooting 40 S&W this could present a problem since factory loads tend to be on the hot side.

On a side note since I reload 40 S&W and 9mm among others I had too switch over to Lee resizing dies, since they and Hornady are the only manufacturers of dies that will eliminate the case bulge that’s caused by the unsupported chamber.

 

[Handy]

A note on reloading bulged brass.

Just because you've ironed out a bulge, you haven't done anything for the strength of the case in that spot. If anything, that spot on the web is even weaker since it's been bulged out then pushed back, like flexing a wire back and forth. While it does it more slowly than aluminum, brass definitely work-hardens. Annealing is a possible solution, but I've never heard of annealing the case head.

Don't reload bulged brass.

 

[Tamara]

The reality is that factory Glock barrels have unsupported chambers.

I dunno, my G23C has no more unsupported area than my .40 P-226 or my 96D.

Besides, case failure does not necessarily equal kaBoom!.

In a case failure the case blows out into the unsupported area, ejecting the magazine and venting the gasses downward. A simple unsupported chamber issue can't explain the blown-open barrel hoods and slides peeled back like bananas we've seen in a couple instances.

Who knows... I think a lot of folks have a hold of a part of the elephant, here, but we don't have a unified field theory of .40 Glock detonations yet.

I've had 5 .40 cal Glocks (3 G23's, 2 G23C's) and none have blown up; but then again, I generally avoid reloads like the plague, and now that 155gr ball is more common, I've started using it in preference to 180gr due to case capacity issues.

 

[WYO]

My Beretta 96D has less unsupported area than my Glock .40. The chamber is tighter, too. I can't get fired Glock brass into the 96D chamber, but I can get fired 96D brass into the Glock chamber. Don't know if it matters in real life, but it matters to me.

 

[ryucasta]

I have been reloading for years and never a problem to date, but thanks for the concern. All the IPSC shooters here in my area have to deal with this problem when we buy once fired brass that’s been fired through Glock or any of the other duty weapons that the departments use here. And the consensus is to use the Lee dies.

Now with regards to Glock I currently own 7 of them and I'm speaking from experience with regards to the unsupported chambers. If you were to shoot from a supported chamber and then measure it with a caliper you would immediately notice the difference between Unsupported and Supported.

As far as the SIG 226 I would be more concerned with a catastrophic failure of the slide occurring after 20000 plus rounds. Having been there and done that luckily no one was hurt badly and SIG they sent me a new gun to replace the one that failed. This failure occurred due to the dissimilar metals used between the slide and frame. That’s why SIG was going to come out if it hasn’t already with a steel frame version.

 

[Powderman]

One more time, I guess....................

The Glock is no safer--and no more UNSAFE.........than any other firearm.

I reload everything but my duty ammo. I have a Glock 22, and a 27. I load 155 and 180 grain FMJ, with Alliant Power Pistol, and with Blue Dot. These seem to work best for me in these cartridges.

I have reloaded the same lot of cases 15 times!! NO case separations, NO case failures, and no kB!!

I have fired a few thousand rounds through the G22. About two hundred through my 27.

What's the point?

1. USE YOUR RELOADING RECIPES IN MODERATION. For instance, if an initial recipe calls for 8.0 grains of powder x, I automatically reduce 10%, and round down to the nearest grain. In this case, my start load will be 7.0 grains.

2. USE A CHRONOGRAPH. Compare your velocities with the book.

3. FOLLOW ANY SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS WITH THE GUN. For instance, Glock warns about using lead in their guns. I wonder how many kB's were caused this way?

Finally, I say again: If you have a Glock that will drop the striker while it is out of battery, THE GUN IS BROKEN. DO NOT LOAD IT. TAKE IT TO A GUNSMITH, OR SEND IT BACK TO GLOCK U.S.A. FOR REPAIR.

 

[whizz]

.40:s in glock

I have fired thousands of reloads in my g35. No bullet less than 170 grains and up to 200 grains. Never a ruptured case or excessive pressure signs. There are some very good powders to be used, I have mentioned them before but noone has bothered to comment...

 

[Oracle]

Whenever I've read serious study of a Glock kB (and some other brand kB's) with .40 S&W ammo, it's been determined that the cartridge was either double-charged, or that the bullet may have been set back to far in the case. If a bullet is set back to far (either from the factory, from a handloader's press, or from a whole lot of chambering/unchambering) it can cause overpressure, especially in a high pressure round like the .40 S&W. I think those two reasons are the cause of most of the kB's (overpressure rounds due to double charge or bullet setback), that's the closest thing to a "unified theory of Glock kB's that I've seen.

 

[alaska1993]

I can't stand to read this stupidity again and again and again.

 

[JJCook]

I hear you Alaska-

It's about as silly as saying, I dropped my GLOCK, it went off, and hit a poor innocent child.

 

[ryucasta]

JJ and Alaska what are you talking about?

 

[leedesert]

Not this again. If you use the search button you'll get more kb info than you can ever read.
Be more creative and ask questions like "Is it true Glocks can get through metal detectors".