Judge shut down Firing Range for loud noise

[Danindetroit]

A mi judge has temporarily shut down Indian lakes firing range, because of noise complaints by people who have built $500,000+ houses nearby. The gun range is on a state run park. It has been there for years. Millions of dollars were invested into this range it is state of the art. It has multiple voice activated, trap, skeet, and 5 stand, areas. A new $1,000,000 clubhouse with air, restrooms, and small kitchen area. The 25, 50, 100 yard gun range has a tower with loudspeakers and at least 1 DNR officer to call for changes, and make sure everybody is safe.

Is this happening in a lot of states, with urban sprawl. People want to get out of the city and move to the country, and expect everyone to bow down to them and make people and entrenched institutions bow to their whims. These people complain about farmers working with "loud" w/equipment late into the night, and bad smells from pig, and chicken farms.

Has anybody had this happen to them, or a neighbor. I guess look before you leap, is long gone wisdom. I am ashamed to be citydweller.

 

[Ignition]

if the range is within city limits or state parks have limitations on sound disturbance i guess the judge could do that.

but if its in the country you can be as loud as you basically want.

our friends got some letters for, practicing our small militia army and disturbing the peace. they also sent the letter to the sherrif. the sherrif and my friends talked and said as long as we practice gun saftey and live out side city limits all they can do is complain, that its a situation that you and the people filing the complaints have to deal with, there is no law against it.


now your county laws may differ, but usually out of the city its not regulated, whether the rich people like it or not.

 

[4V50 Gary]

Gunfire from a range sounds better than Mozart.

We'll just have to have an outdoor "pop" symphony. May I suggest Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture? Instead of 6 pdr or 12 pdr guns, let's use 155mm Howitzers.

 

[Danindetroit]

It is in Green oaks township, and the range has been there for a long time, way before these people moved in. Closer towards The Big D there are 2 other private ranges that are within shouting distance of houses. It is up to a zoning commisson to look at facts to determine if a longstanding state gun range, inside a park that lets you shoot deer with a shotgun, should have houses that close to these facilities. If you buy a farmers land, and farms are all around it, and you don't want smells or noise, you did not do any research. In the city you can hear the traffic from a main road a mile away. This range is a 9 to 5 operation. Most big cities have laws that when doing road construction you are able to operate 8 to 5. And when you got next to a Komatsu excavator digging a 40 ft deep ditch to lay a six foot dia. municipal water supply pipe its is as loud as a jet.

You will have to drive at least 2 hours to maybe find an area that is not a township or city around here, but there are hunting areas within a 1/2 hour. It just seems if you got a slug gun and want to test it out before a hunt it would be nice to not drive farther to do that than to actually hunt. Usually around here, if you had a business in an area that was zoned business, and people get the zoning around you changed they can not rezone your business out of exsistence, kind of a grandfather clause, like weapons owned before gun bans that were legal, are still legal. The fact it is a state facility that might have taxdollars into it, but it does charge a motor vehicle permit, and a range permit so it might break even.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Just a note to gun owners in other states: get a Range Protection bill passed that grandfathers in all existing ranges.

This lawsuit strategy is spreading nationwide. If they can't ban the guns, they can try to sue us out of places to shoot.

And, for the apolitical, apathetic hunters (a description which does not apply to 99.99% of TFL members): when they can shut down the ranges, they can close the hunting lands, too.

 

[Danindetroit]

Thanks for posting I was wondering. Do you think it is just ignorance of a different way of life, or do they want those bad hunters gone. They will maybe have second thoughts when a deer jumps onto the hood of their SUV and the body enters the cabin vehicle. My father-in-law and girlfrined got a medium buck with the chevy pick-up, horns first right between them it was luck neither of the were injured. The deer herd is about 1,000,000 deer over what the enviroment can support and there are fewer hunters avery year. They should lower out of state tags to $15. The deer are getting sick easier and are smaller than they should be. They are in places in july when they would regularly be way back in the woods. No place to shoot no hunters more deer.

 

[jefnvk]

They should lower out of state tags to $15.

No, they should drop doe tags down.

And how long was this range there? IIRC, there was a state one not too long ago in trouble for noise. Don't know if it was this one or not, but the houses were there first. IMHO, there should be nothing to stop the homeowners in that situtation.

 

[Danindetroit]

OK

Does it matter if the houses are there first or the homeowners. I lived in a house that started out as a farmhouse for a very large farm. Over the years owners of the house put on 2 additions, raising the sq ft. to 2900. The house was there long before a high school and a local church. Does that mean when the marching band practiced a mile away and it bothered me I could shut it down, or when a church played music on a loud speaker every 4 hours I could have that stoped. Since the original house was 100 years old.

It is called island lake recreation area. The shooting facilities have been there at least 20 times longer than the houses. The facility underwent restoration and modernization, but I do not think that makes it lose legal status. It is located between brighton and wixom on I-96. Across from Kensington metro park. The area was either farmland or a field 10 years ago. You can see people bowhunting from the highway along that stretch of road.

Here is info it has had hunting so there must have been gunfire, for atleast 30 years. It is new residents in new homes.

http://www.ring.com/travel/dnr/sp_islan.htm

One of the nation's most modern and safest shooting ranges has been expanded to include skeet, trap and sporting clays at Island Lake Recreation Area in addition to its original forty 25-yard, 50-yard, and 100- yard shooting stations. The range is fully handicap accessible, user friendly, and designed with sound abatement as a priority.

 

[Fred Hansen]

Does it matter if the houses are there first or the homeowners.

It depends on whether the house is in a liberal controlled state/county/city or not.

The house was there long before a high school and a local church. Does that mean when the marching band practiced a mile away and it bothered me I could shut it down, or when a church played music on a loud speaker every 4 hours I could have that stoped. Since the original house was 100 years old.

Getting the band stopped would be difficult, but any American Criminal Liberties Union lawyer would be happy to help you get the church completely removed for having their religious music pollute the public air.

This lawsuit strategy is spreading nationwide. If they can't ban the guns, they can try to sue us out of places to shoot.

Monkeyleg has it 100% correct. It isn't about the noise, it's about the guns.

 

[jefnvk]

Sorry if I came across hard, and I know this is a nation wide problem. I misunderstood your saying about the price tags, and thought you meant that it was just built.

I will look at this fairly, if the range just had been built, then the citizens would have a right to complain. The range I had earlier mentioned was built two or three years ago, and the people were there. IMHO, that gives them a right to complain.

But, as you mentioned, the range has been there for 30 years, there should be no problems from the citizens. They chose to move next to the range, they should have had the sense to know it would be noisy.

I was told the same thing was going on with the Midland Sportsmens club. My friend's dad is a member, and about five years back, someone developed a subdivision downrange. When they found out they were down range, they tried to have it shut down. AFAIK, the judge probably told them to move. Range was there since the 30's/40's, IIRC.

I have a simple solution to this problem. DEREGLUATE SUPRESSORS!

 

[Fred Hansen]

I have a simple solution to this problem. DEREGLUATE SUPRESSORS!

Deregulating suppressors has its own merits, but the people we are talking about would sue to get the range closed in other ways. One of many ways is to sue over potential lead pollution in area groundwater.

It's not about the noise. It's about the guns. Liberal hivethink is threatened by those who can fend for themselves. Guns are a reasonable indicator - though not always - that a person has at least given some thought to the idea of self-sufficiency.

Guns are no more or less loud in conservative/libertarian leaning areas. Ranges in those areas DO NOT suffer from credible threats to shut them down. Ranges in liberal areas do. This is no accident.

 

[Danindetroit]

J that is alright, that doe thing is right on the money, they just Improved the range and invested a lot of Taxpayer money? into the range which will be shut down the week before opening day for firearms. This place makes money for the state, and will recoup the costs, I am not sure if it is a fed court, or state, or what.

I was just wondering how realty law like that worked, because if a non-profit group bought the range from the state and had made the improvements, but paid for a DNR presence at the range, would it make the homeowner actually because of title transfer or something make the gunranges claim invalid. That does happen to regular businesses that are located in an area that is now zoned residential. If the owner of the business moves the business must move.

I actualy liked to know the approx. time(never carried a watch) by the church music, it seemed pretty inoffensive, but somebody did ask me to sign a petition which I DID NOT sign.

It is hard enough to find something for HS kids to do. The cops always seemed to break up a group of 10 or more young people if they could. But I always considered it my problem, I figured out why they have earplugs at drug stores.

 

[jefnvk]

Have some hope. Two years ago, the city refused to let the gunshow that had been going on for 40 years use the ice rink, as they had been doing, citing parking concerns. Two groups of people started complaining, one that the city was losing lots of money (someone said nearly $1M), and the other group said that if the gunshow couldn't be there, then the home and garden show that attracted as many people shouldn't be there either. The decision was overturned the next year.

There is hope.

 

[Danindetroit]

I thought it was on the national news (cnn Headline news?) that certain counties in MI had issued a pamphlet that talked about life in the country, and actually had a scratch and sniff portion to show city-folk about the smell of manure. It seems people were complaing about bad smells and lound tractors at night, and the normal workings of country life. If you want smells and noise, and incovience, go to caro, MI where the sugar plant is. They work all day and night when the sugar beets have to come out of the ground and the processing odor does not smell very sweet. The real kicker is a pig farm. You go out that way and people really do need the giant suv with a 12,000lb towing capacity. This was on the local news last year, but they never closed the range down. I just read that while MI has 1/3 the people of california it has 28? more state reps, who make $79,000 a year, w a $12,000 a year expense acct for the avg rep, and up to an extra $24,000 for the speaker of the house and more comp for other reps. I think it is about time to have a part-time legislature, who gets paid for 30 hours a week at the minimum wage. After 5 years of service in the legislature, you get benefits for the rest of your life. They have made emergency changes to LEO's and state workers pay. I think a grass roots ballot referendum is needed to make some changes that could save MI a lot of money.

 

[Geoff Timm]

Well, sounds like the Judge needs to be investigated for bribery. Get the donations list. When is the Judge up for reelection. Pettition the court for his removal as mentally defective.

Meet complaints with complaints. The State paid millions of your tax dollars for that facility and the Judge should be required to pay the tax payer back.

Flood the local media with letters and calls. "Rip-off Judge Steals Millions.."

Geoff
Who quotes that famous American, Bull Halsey, "ATTACK! Repeat ATTACK!"

 

[Danindetroit]

I can not honestly say how the range improvemnets were paid, the shotgun portion of the range is managed by a non-state "company", but to park in the lot you have to by a state parks sticker, and pay range fees. The REALLY bad part is that since it is a well run facility a lot of people bring their kids to learn about guns and shooting. I loned my shot gun, and some AA trap loads to a guy with a couple of kids and only one gun so he could shoot next to his kid and help him out, and not have to rent a gun. I think the importance of trying to get younger people involved has been stressed on this board and I thought, and still do think it is important. Video games might be nice, but to shoot trap and feel the kick of the gun and smell the powder, and "know" you really hit something has got to be fun.

 

[mikikanazawa]

Oh man, that's such a joke.

Where I live in Lakewood, there's a police firing range a few blocks from my house. It's ALWAYS busy, starting at around 6:00 in the old A.M. with many, many rapid fire strings until midnight or so.

I know my neighbors have filed several complaints with the city. Of course, they're still shooting from 6 to 12, so obviously those complaints are going nowhere. What really kills me is that Lakewood has BANNED gun shops... for civilians anyway. There are kitchen-table dealers here, but they maintain a very low profile. I only see the actual dealers at the shows, and after the 10-day waiting period you go to a dark window in an alley to pick up your iron.

 

[rolling thunder]

firing ranges

Here near where I live there used to be a very nice park, with trees, a small lake and open fields. The small town that owned the land could no longer afford the upkeep of the land and sold it. A shooting club bought it and constructed a firing range (shotguns only I believe but there could be other types as well). The problem is that on the shallow end of the lake (maybe 100 yards from the firing range) are about ten homes that had been there for some time. If I have it right, (once again I could have it wrong) those homes were technically outside the limits of this small town.
The lakeside resident's complained and it at first to no avail. Then they began to move it to the courts and the gun club had to fight to keep the place. I believe they have it going again, though residents nearby complain of hearing the shotguns as late as 10 pm. In my opinion the gun club should be more considerit to the nearby homeowners and refrain from shooting well into the evening.
In the small town I live in there is a range maybe 1 mile south of me and I can hear the guns easily on a still night. (Though I don't care because 1. I like things that go "BANG!", and 2. I can turn on the tV or radio and I don't hear it at all.
But as to this other gun range, I believe they (if they haven't yet) give in to the local residents and not fire past 9 pm. Either way, the small town where it is located screwed both those homewoners (who were there many years before the gun club bought the land) as well as the gun club itself. By allowing them to shoot without arriving first at a compromise (maybe dirt berms to shield the sound?) between the homeowners and the gun club. By not doing so they set both entities up for a showdown in the courts. It could have been easily done before, now the firefight between the two factions could become a "powder keg" as more and more people build homes adjacent to the original neighborhood. Sooner or later the range will be shut down (again just my WAG) as the population in that neighborhood grows. I believe it has also been annexed by the town, setting the stage for a final shoot out in the courts. The town let both groups down.

 

[rolling thunder]

more on shooting ranges

I forgot something else. There is also a state police firing range located right next to another small town. They have a dirt berm that is fifty feeet high. Still, somehow, someway, when they brought down a bunch of chicago city cops to familiarlize(sp?) them to full-auto fire they managed to shoot 8 cars and three rounds into an electrical company's building wjere the cars were.
Now I have been to the firing range a few times to help a state police friend of mine shoot a ton of ammunition that was considered to old to be used in all conditions. Whatever the case I got to fire off a lot of rounds. When facing the berm, one cannot get any farther away from it than the 50 feet or so to the shooter stations. The story I heard, (I have an uncle who owns a indoor firing range) was that one of the chicago boys must not have been paying attention and let the muzzle rise as he fired on full auto. Many rounds actually cleared the berm and hit the cars and building that was about a half mile from the site. I don't think chicago cops need fully autos, what they need to do is repeal their stupid handgun laws.

 

[Danindetroit]

If I need help from the police I don't care if they come with an abrams tank, and commanche heliocopters, as long as it gets the job done. Can any range be made totally "safe" nope. Look at the news. Ask a ground pounder why they use 1/4? charge grenades to teach the infantry, when first learning how to use grenade.