Japanese Mums...

P

Parke1

New member
So I was snooping around at the local gun shop a day or two ago, and while in the middle ordering a Turkish Mauser from SOG, I noticed a couple of Japanese Mauser-action-based rifles (can't quite remember the exact model). I asked to take a look at them, and on the first one, the mum had been ground off, but on the second it was still perfectly intact. I realize that the ammo for these guns (7.7 or 7.5, I can't remember) is hard to find, but that's beside the point. Is the gun with the mum still on it rare, or valuable? It wasn't much, so if the gun is rare, and I could eventually get a return on it, I'd definitely snatch it up.

BTW, the rifle with the mum on it was in VERY good condition, still with I'd say around 98% intact blueing.

Thanks, all!
-Parke1
 
K

K80Geoff

New member
The Mum is the symbol of the Emperor of Japan, and was found on all military equipment. When the Emperor ordered his people to surrender the mums were ground off before the guns were turned in for some symbolic reason or other.

MacArthur ordered american servicemen to grind off the mums on their war trophies as a gesture of conciliation, obviously the owner of the one with the mum didn't obey orders. I am told by people more knowledgable than I that the mum is very desirable.
 
W

Watchman

Moderator
The caliber is 7.7 Jap.

BUY IT ! BUY IT NOW ! GO BACK AND GET IT !

These guns are not easy to find as the serious collectors snap them up every chance they get. There are Japanese Collectors here in the US that specilaize in Jap guns and equipment that would pay a premium price for a rifle in good shape with a mum.

Remember , once these old war horses are gone, they are gone forever. Intrest in collecting old miltary rifles is picking up. For some examples you can go check out Auction Arms on the net and see what they are worth. As a testimony to the MUM , you wont see many there with mums intact. Most of them have been ground off.
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
Model 99 service rifle-7.7X58 Arisaka in 98% condition books for $140.00.......subtract $20 if Mum has been ground off.

from Fjestad's blue book.

Sam
 
P

Penman

New member
The mum is the crest of the Imperial family of Japan, and I think it was a case where the rifles would no longer be used in service to the emperor. In Japan family crests are called "mon", and are usually in a symmetrical square or circular form. The Arisaka actions are very strong, P.O. Ackley tested some millitary actions many years back, and I believe he found the Arisaka held up the best of all.
 
S

Smiley

New member
Go back and get it quick. It is very valuable as a collectors because of the rarity of an intact seal. I would say that it is defenitly worth it. You could probably turn it over right now for a good profit or hang onto it for a while and get the same if not better return.
 
L

LONGRIFLE30

New member
Did it have the mum on both the bolt handle and the bolt shroud? If so, get it. That was a war trophy, all the Arisakas imported later had to have the mums ground off before they were allowed in coumtry, just like the swastika (sp?) on the German Mausers. When buying an Arasaka, be careful, the "last ditch' guns made after about '43, they were junk. The early ones were nice strong actions. Make sure the barrel is not a smooth bore. They made fully functional rifles for drill purposes which had cast iron actions, and those rifles had smooth bores. I know a guy who has one in about the condition you spoke of. His grandfather took it off a Japanese soldier he killed, and sent the rifle home. It has both mums and shoots real good.
 
P

Parke1

New member
So here's a question, how much would you pay for this rifle? I'm pretty sure that I'm gonna pick it up regardless, I'm just curious. Bear in mind that the gun is in QUITE nice shape. It won't be fired, just maintained for the time being until I decide to sell it (if I can force myself to do so :D ).

Thanks for the wealth of information, everyone. Only on TFL...
-Parke1
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
I'd pay something under $140.00, conditional on condition of innards including bore and chamber. Matching numbers and proper hardware.

Sam
 
R

RBK

New member
Sounds like you got a tremendous buy! My father has one of these and it shoots very well. Great peep sight.
You can get ammo by NORMA...very pricey. And, Florida Ammo Traders has 7.7 made from 30-06. I have some he sent me and have not tried it yet. It was about half price of the Norma stuff. Also, Alabama Ammo did some reloading of my Norma brass which turned out good.
I got a great bayonet from North China Arms and a well made reproduction leather sling from Sarco.
The Japs are still an overlooked milsurp in my opinion and deserve to be in milsurp collections.

Here are some links for above mentioned:

http://www.floridaammotraders.com/ammo.html
http://www.sarcoinc.com/index.html
http://www.armscenter.com/nca/
http://www.alabamaammo.com/
 
J

James K

Member In Memoriam
Hi, Longrifle30 and guys,

There were very few Japanese rifles imported into the US after the war; almost all in the country are GI bringbacks.

Nor is there any US law requiring either the Japanese "mum" or the swastika to be removed from imported rifles. The rifles with defaced swastikas had that done by a using country (Yugoslavia or Israel), not by the US. The "mum" on Japanese rifles was ground off when the rifles were surrendered out of depots at the end of the war.

An intact "mum" would mean a battle capture but, as in Europe, true battle capture rifles are uncommon. US forces, mainly Marines, engaged in the delightful tropic vacation sport of island hopping, didn't carry around two rifles just so they could bring a souvenir home. Many of the battle capture rifles were brought back by sailors who bought them from Marines and had the space to store them on the return voyage.

(Yes, I know all about how your grandfather/father/uncle/cousin took that Jap rifle from a Japanese general in hand to hand combat, etc., etc. And I would never doubt him. But all the other guys got theirs when they cleaned out the mainland depots after the crests were ground off by Japanese personnel.)

Jim
 
7

7th Fleet

New member
I bought a very nice 7.7 Jap Arisaka from a Pawn Shop late last year with an intact Mum for the princely sum of $40.00 out the door. The did behind the counter didn't know what an Arisaka was and he had never heard of a Mum so I got a deal. I also have one with the ground off Mum that some idiot sporterized backin the 50s.
7th
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top