It's only going to get worse.

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bushidomosquito

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The number of crazy people deciding they have nothing to loose and getting their hands on a gun, that is. In late April, a long time friend of mine was shot and killed outside a Target store along with one other victim by a mentally derranged man who had broke into his elderly neighbors home, murdered her, and stole her husbands old military rifle with the intent of going on a shooting spree. I'm not writing as to the ease with which a known "wacko" was able to find a gun nor as to the fact that it was another gun that eventually cut his rampage short. My concern is that there is no end in sight to this kind of thing happening and indeed it is only going to get worse.

My girlfriend works for the department of mental health and her caseload is increasing at an alarming rate. She tells daily stories of mentally handicapped people and the dangers that some pose to themselves and others. Although it would disgust her to hear me say it, I think her profession is fighting a loosing battle. Society is presently geared up for producing more of these unstable and dangerous individuals than it can ever hope to control and there is usually little or no warning as to who is going to cross that line and when.

But why kill innocent people just because you have decided that life is no longer worth living? Because you perceive that your suffering is the fault of others. Sometimes the crazed gunmen go after specific individuals that have ridiculed or refused to accept them like in Columbine. The coward that shot my friend was refused a security job at Target because of his mental history and decided it was ok to kill anyone who would have the nerve to shop at a store that denied him employment. Many people suffer from the delusion that their failuers in life are the fault of others and that number increases every day. All that is required for a mass shooting to occur is for this common notion to strike one of the many dangerously unstable people out there and for them to lay hands on one of the many guns out there. Frankly I can't believe that it doesn't happen every day.

Why don't other countries with an abundance of guns see as many shooting sprees as the U.S.? Maybe because they don't suffer from the liberal delusion that everyone is entitled to a wonderful life with minimal effort, everyone should be accepted by everyone else and no one is responsible for their actions. We have kids going from an "everybody gets a trophy even if they didn't earn it" sugar coated environment into a "not everybody gets a fat paycheck, a hot wife and tons of cool friends even if they did earn it and certianly not if they didn't" real world environment and then wonder why some people flip out and take the ultimate revenge on the screwed up system. Mass shootings are another unpleasant byproduct of liberal policy makers, the same policy makers that want to make darn sure that you are unarmed when the disgruntled and armed wacko wanders into your local gun free zone.
 

JaserST4

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I don't know about other countries but we need to get serious about institutionalizing folks again. It sounds unamerican to deprive people of their liberty because of an infliction but the price not to is just too high. And maybe with that threat some may seek help instead of self medicating. Obviously safeguards need to be in place so it isn't abused though.
 

joab

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Interesting point

I would like the see the mental health policies and practices of those countries that we are so often compared to

Maybe if all the time money and effort being put into verifiably ineffective gun control measures were put towards reopening the state mental hospitals we would see a downturn in the violence
 

zippyfusenet

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I've also noticed that we have a lot of whackos running around who are a danger to themselves and others. I've also been thinking about solutions.

The obstacle to re-opening the mental hospitals is funding. 'Community based care' is a lot cheaper than institutional treatment, except for the cost of the increasing number of casualties among the community. Lower cost, in my opinion, is the reason we shut down the mental hospitals during the Reagan era. Talk about securing the liberties of the mentally ill and improving outcomes was just comforting bullshine.

Good mental health treatment is expensive and poor people rarely get it. Under-funded mental hospitals are hideous dungeons where the afflicted are warehoused and, too often, abused. I'm willing to pay taxes to fund mental health care, but most of my neighbors aren't.

From what I read in the papaers, the situation in the UK seems about as bad as in the US, with dangerous loons ignoring their ASBOs, skipping their meds and inflicting violence on innocent bystanders.

We're all going to be stuck with the present arrangement until we're willing to pay for a better one.
 

Majic

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Those problems have always been with us and is nothing new. With the population exploding don't you think the deranged numbers will increase also?
 

Buzzcook

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Thank Ronald Reagan. He started the trend of releasing people form institutional care. It was a cost saving measure.
 

Vermont

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Mass shootings are another unpleasant byproduct of liberal policy makers

Really? I'm just wondering where you got that idea, because most European countries are more liberal than the United States and like you said, they don't seem to have the same problems.
 

Doublestack

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Why don't other countries with an abundance of guns see as many shooting sprees as the U.S.? Maybe because they don't suffer from the liberal delusion that everyone is entitled to a wonderful life with minimal effort, everyone should be accepted by everyone else and no one is responsible for their actions. We have kids going from an "everybody gets a trophy even if they didn't earn it" sugar coated environment into a "not everybody gets a fat paycheck, a hot wife and tons of cool friends even if they did earn it and certianly not if they didn't" real world environment and then wonder why some people flip out and take the ultimate revenge on the screwed up system. Mass shootings are another unpleasant byproduct of liberal policy makers, the same policy makers that want to make darn sure that you are unarmed when the disgruntled and armed wacko wanders into your local gun free zone.

+1 Well said!

DS
 

SIGSHR

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The practice of "deinstitutionalizing" mental patients started in the 1970s long before Regain took office. And it was done at the state level, either
as a "penny wise-pound foolish" cost cutting measure or as a result of lawsuits.
 
I'll add my 2 cents. There are some people out there who are not safe to be in society. At present most of these are people who comitted a crime. But even if you don't aggree take the time to ponder something. If someone has a case of a mental disorder and he does go out and shoot/kill someone, would you want to be the one to explian to the family that about his right to freedom and why it was unlawfull to put him in an institution? Some people are just not safe. yes some people truely are '
born that way" but so be it. Life has never been fair. I am going blind in my left eye from a condition that only 1% of the population has. You learn to deal with it. No sure if it was mentioned but what about people who lack the mental capacaty to understand the concept of "you can't take back that shot" I submit that there are just people out there who should be locked up, not just for the saftey of others but for their own saftey as well.
 

IdaReggaeMon

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Why don't other countries with an abundance of guns see as many shooting sprees as the U.S.? Maybe because they don't suffer from the liberal delusion that everyone is entitled to a wonderful life with minimal effort, everyone should be accepted by everyone else and no one is responsible for their actions. We have kids going from an "everybody gets a trophy even if they didn't earn it" sugar coated environment into a "not everybody gets a fat paycheck, a hot wife and tons of cool friends even if they did earn it and certianly not if they didn't" real world environment and then wonder why some people flip out and take the ultimate revenge on the screwed up system. Mass shootings are another unpleasant byproduct of liberal policy makers, the same policy makers that want to make darn sure that you are unarmed when the disgruntled and armed wacko wanders into your local gun free zone.

Complete nonsense. Canada has lots of guns and is much more liberal than the U.S. They don't have the level of gun violence we do.
 

bushidomosquito

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Liberal comes in many flavors, some good and some bad. Doesn't have to mean that the general message is everyone deserves the same thing and nothing is your fault, that's just the direction that the U.S. has taken it.
 

Vermont

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Doesn't have to mean that the general message is everyone deserves the same thing and nothing is your fault

I think it would be more appropriate to say you are referring to Disciples of Barney the Purple Dinosaur, not Liberals. Everyone is special. Even you, bushidomosquito!

I don't know what causes people to shoot up their school, but blaming it on liberals is as bad as blaming it on video games or music. It is just a convenient scapegoat. I don't know what the real problem is. My guess would be that it is a confluence of many problems and is different in almost every case.
 

Yithian

New member
Call it whatever name you want...

I call it making myself "bait".
I do not understand why I have to ask permission to have a firearm in my daily possession.
They call it "Permit to Carry Concealed". Here in TX, its called a CCW.

Dumb is what I call it.

It makes us victims without a choice... unless they give us permission.

I thought that was a good idea to ask to have a pistol, with a background check.
The idea of asking again just to use it... an insult.
 

Buzzcook

New member
SIGSHR: Reagan did it as governor of California. He was first elected in 1968 and served through 75.
Anyone who seriously looked at his record as governor was able to predict where he would fail as president. Education, the environment, health care and dubious government contracts; were all areas where his failure in California was a template for his presidency.

In 1972, after the March and July closings of DeWitt and Mendocino State
Hospitals respectively, then-Governor Reagan announced that all state
mental illness hospitals would be closed by 1977. All mental retardation
institutions were to be terminated by 1982.

http://www.mnddc.org/parallels2/pdf/84-PPM-UOI.pdf
 
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Fremmer

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Why don't other countries with an abundance of guns see as many shooting sprees as the U.S.? Maybe because they don't suffer from the liberal delusion that everyone is entitled to a wonderful life with minimal effort, everyone should be accepted by everyone else and no one is responsible for their actions.

Or maybe those other countries provide better care to those who are mentally ill. ;)
 

pesta2

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Or maybe those other countries provide better care to those who are mentally ill

Amen to that. It is this wonderful health care system in the U.S. we have. People, not being able to afford the medication and medical treatment they need.

Our health care ranking:

36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
 

LightningJoe

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America is different from any other country and some of that's genetic. For centuries, this country was the destination for Europe's oddballs. The truth is, Americans are more than a bit crazier on average than Europeans. That's actually been a source of strength. Fight the Kaiser, Hitler, Tojo, save Europe from Stalin, fight Commies all over the world, and create and then dominate the modern world economy? That's crazy.


Let's face it, though. Spree killing is almost exclusively a white man's stunt. In America, when Whitey snaps, it's spectacular.
 

ornithoid

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Or maybe those other countries provide better care to those who are mentally ill.

Someone also mentioned some (who-knows-how-it-was-derived) ranking for the U.S. healthcare system right near Slovenia.

OK, fine, we could have "free" healthcare for everyone... and to pay for the "free" healthcare we'll just have to nudge your income tax rate on up to, oh, say, 50 or 60% of your income.

So the government will be taking a huge chunk more of your money to then give back to you in the form of a bureaucratically run, rationed health care benefit that -- OOOH! -- you "don't have to pay for!" :rolleyes:

Sorry, that just doesn't sound appealing.
Our system may not be all that good, but neither is anyone else's, based on what I've been reading.
 
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