"It" has arisen

Oldphart

New member
Of course it never has been really dead. It just lays there waiting for some controversy to nudge it. Then it stands up and waves a bloody shirt at us as if to blame us for what it has allowed.

I'm speaking of the gun-control movement, of course and this is what I was greeted with on this rainy Easter morning.

THE SECOND AMENDMENT
Sunday, March 23, 2008
Susan Nielsen

The Supreme Court should take a little field trip this spring before handing down a historic ruling that could undercut the nation's most basic gun restrictions.

Perhaps to North Portland, where a spate of shootings has frayed people's nerves. Or Cleveland High School in Southeast Portland, which went into lockdown last spring after a gun scare. Or maybe Gresham, where a man recently shot his 51-year-old wife in the back of the head while she slept and called it a "mercy killing."

An outing like this might force the court's conservative majority to consider something other than their precious ideological purity. It might shame them into caring more about Americans who face danger today than the romanticized pioneers of centuries past.

I doubt it, based on these justices' track record of gutting laws that protect citizens. But it might.

Last week, the Supreme Court heard a case about the constitutionality of a handgun ban in the District of Columbia. The court's ruling will be the first major gun decision since 1939. Surprisingly, it's also the court's first real attempt to settle a longstanding legal debate: Does the Second Amendment protect only the right of the people to form militias, or does it also protect an individual right to own guns?

The suspense may puzzle anyone who, like me, thought the right to own guns was as sacred and settled as the Ten Commandments. Turns out it isn't. Most lower courts have ruled in favor of the collective right, not the individual right. The ease of arming yourself like Rambo has more to do with the power of the National Rifle Association than the guidance of the Supreme Court.

Ideally, the high court would show some judicial restraint and take a narrow approach, in the spirit of former Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. It would strike down D.C.'s unreasonable handgun ban, while allowing modest regulations that tread lightly on citizens' implicit right of self-defense.

In this ideal world, the court also would heed the advice of Paul Clement, the Bush administration's solicitor general. He pleaded with the court to avoid a decision so sweeping that it would, for example, make Congress unable to regulate machine guns.

But I'm not holding my breath for moderation.

The court's conservative quintet seemed eager to enshrine gun ownership as an individual right. Depending on their approach, they may open the door to striking down waiting periods and other prudent restrictions designed to prevent violent or mentally ill people from obtaining weapons.

In other words, they could land somewhere near Vice President Dick Cheney, who signed an amicus brief urging the court to limit government restrictions on gun ownership. This is a man who believes in the constitutional right to shoot your friends in the face, and he's Justice Antonin Scalia's hunting buddy.

During last week's oral arguments, Scalia bloviated about the Founders while showing typical disdain for facts that contradict his opinions. Justice Anthony Kennedy waxed rhapsodic about pioneer men protecting their families from Indians and grizzlies. Chief Justice John G. Roberts, for his part, seemed reluctant to follow Clement's advice for a clear and reasonable limit to an individual's constitutional right to own guns.

"We are starting afresh," Roberts said, as if the nation were his blank slate.

Whew. These people need to exit their chambers and book a flight to anywhere. While it's crucial they protect the bedrock principle of self-defense, they also need to consider the issue from the other end of the gun.
Maybe talk to any lawmaker, college president or police officer entrusted with public safety. Or to the families of victims of gun violence. These real-life citizens could explain the parts of a school shooting or domestic homicide that aren't academic.

But our judges are too busy "starting afresh," as the chief justice put it.

This court is too busy making history.

Associate Editor Susan Nielsen: 503-221-8153; susannielsen@news.oregonian.com
 

JuanCarlos

New member
Ideally, the high court would show some judicial restraint and take a narrow approach, in the spirit of former Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. It would strike down D.C.'s unreasonable handgun ban, while allowing modest regulations that tread lightly on citizens' implicit right of self-defense.

Um...isn't this pretty much exactly what an individual-rights ruling would do? It's not like any other individual constitutional rights are absolute, why would this one be any different. The only difference is that the burden would be on lawmakers to show both the need for the regulation and demonstrate just how lightly it treads on individual rights. It's not like NICS checks (as an example) are going to go away overnight, or even at all.

The court's conservative quintet seemed eager to enshrine gun ownership as an individual right. Depending on their approach, they may open the door to striking down waiting periods and other prudent restrictions designed to prevent violent or mentally ill people from obtaining weapons.

Maybe somebody could help me out, because I've yet to live somewhere that requires them. But what, exactly, is the purpose of the waiting period and how does it prevent the mentally ill or violent from getting a gun? Do additional, more in-depth checks than the instant NICS check that they run up here occur?

I guess if the waiting period is used for more extensive background checks then it makes a little bit of sense (though I still don't agree with it). But I was always under the impression that it's basically the same instant check you get anywhere else, then they just make you wait a week for no real reason at all.

I'm failing to see any actual utility in such a restriction.
 

JuanCarlos

New member
So, here we have a liberal whining about activist judges. I wonder if the irony is lost upon her?

Probably no more so than on the conservatives waiting with baited breath for those activist judges to rule in their favor.
 

LightningJoe

New member
Probably no more so than on the conservatives waiting with baited breath for those activist judges to rule in their favor.


Ruling according to what's actually written in the Constitution isn't judicial activism. You can't remember what the Supreme Court's really supposed to do. It's been too long.
 

JuanCarlos

New member
Ruling according to what's actually written in the Constitution isn't judicial activism. You can't remember what the Supreme Court's really supposed to do. It's been too long.

You're making the assumption that other judges labeled "activist" weren't ruling according to what was written in the Constitution (state or federal, as applicable).

I don't generally call any judges "activist." So I suppose I should have put that in quotes before. Ruling in favor of individual rights based on what is written in the Constitution isn't activism, even when you don't like the individuals in question. Which, at least from where I sit, generally tends to be the line many draw for "judicial activism"...whether you dislike the group whose rights just got upheld.

But I suppose you and I would agree that a ruling in favor of individual firearms rights is Constitutionally supported here. For what it's worth.
 

Wildalaska

Moderator
Ruling according to what's actually written in the Constitution isn't judicial activism.

Thats only if you think the other side isnt ruling on whats actually written in the constitution :)


WildordidiconfusemyselfAlaska TM
 

Perldog007

New member
The activist judges were the ones making juris wee wee trying to rationalize a way to justify the ban...... Not the ones who can read a twenty seven word amendment without mishap.

Edit - Decided to email ole Susan with some unsolicited feedback on her writings:

Hi Susan,

I have to take exception to your Sunday piece on Heller.

"while allowing modest regulations that tread lightly on citizens' implicit right of self-defense." would that be like regulations which only tread "lightly" on the First Amendment and the implicit right of the free press? How about a regulation against one sided editorials containing ad hominem arguments?

What part of "shall not be infringed" confuses you? Perhaps you should book some flights, but not just to anywhere. Start out by heading over to Lubbock Texas and talk to those folks who know about the Luby's massacre. Then head over to Anniston Alabama and talk to people who know about the evil that was foiled at their Shoney's by an armed citizen.

Next you need to go to Columbine and revisit what happened to the folks in that gun free zone. Now go to Pearl Mississippi and find out what happened when an armed citizen is able to stop a spree shooter. Now you need to go to Virginia Tech and re-visit yet another gun free zone that provided a safe work environment for a killer. After that it's off to Grundy Virginia to find out how those students were able to tackle that spree shooter (Hint, it has something to do with armed students making the killer lay down his gun before he was tackled)

Finally you should book a flight to Colorado and look up that nice looking Rambo named Ms. Assam who stopped a lunatic from shooting up her church.

Then off to a maximum security prison where there are no guns, so you can see how harmless felons are once they don't have any access to guns. Next we need a library and some time in the History section to research what kind of place this world was before guns were invented.

When you realize that there are two sides to the story your one sided view will sound as ridiculous to you as it does to the educated and aware.

Or you could simply read all the amici briefs for Heller on both sides.

Peace,

Perldog007 - ( Of course I did not use my forum name :D)
 

LightningJoe

New member
You're making the assumption that other judges labeled "activist" weren't ruling according to what was written in the Constitution (state or federal, as applicable).


The contents of the Constitution are empirically verifiable. There's not a penumbra or an emanation in there. Anybody who bases his (or her--thanks for the memories, Sandra) rulings on extra-Constitutional feelings, predictions, or preferences is an activist Justice. Justices who rule based on what the Constitution says are sometimes called strict constructionists or originalists. It's a matter of terminology. These terms have meanings. Can't really get around that.
 

44capnball

New member
Perldog, that was a good letter, I liked it a lot.

I see the heavily biased writer of that news editorial made sure to play the "public safety" card.

As soon as that one gets trotted out, you know what they're all about.
 

lefteye

New member
But our judges are too busy "starting afresh," as the chief justice put it.

This court is too busy making history.

"Starting afresh", in the context of Heller, is a description of the court's first opportunity/effort to definitively address the individual right question. It is not, as the assoc. editor implied, "creating" new constitutional law.

The "court is [NOT] too busy making history." Its members are performing their duties.

For her reading - for everyone's reading - I recommend Wayne LaPierre's column "Self-Defense is a Basic Human Right", American Rifleman, page 10 (April 2008).
 

publius42

New member
That Cheney is soooo far out there! He signed this really wacky amicus brief! LOL!

BRIEF FOR AMICI CURIAE 55 MEMBERS OF UNITED STATES SENATE, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE, AND 250 MEMBERS OF UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IN SUPPORT OF RESPONDENT

Rio Linda residents, that's a majority of both houses of Congress.
 

RDak

New member
Quote:
Ruling according to what's actually written in the Constitution isn't judicial activism.

Thats only if you think the other side isnt ruling on whats actually written in the constitution


WildordidiconfusemyselfAlaska TM

Man, I hope they read it the way I do! :p
 

Glenn E. Meyer

New member
If the Scotus overturns antiabortion, antisodomy, get rid of forced school prayer and segregation laws - they are activist judges.

If they overturn laws (passed by legislatures) that ban guns, they are not activist judges.

I'm confused. I guess you have to choose your abrogation of your rights according to the nuttiness of your social agenda.
 

Musketeer

New member
So, here we have a liberal whining about activist judges. I wonder if the irony is lost upon her?

It sounds more like she is insulted the court seems to be insisting on following the law and not acting as activists for "the public good!" How dare they! Don't they know it is the job of justices to bring about societal change through creative interpretations of the written word from their untouchable and unaccountable positions! Surely she doesn't expect the legislature to do something!
 
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