I'm confused how silencer parts can be advertised as oil filters and sold to the public. Somebody explain this too me... Ok, now this is not a drive by post.
https://www.lafoauto.com/
https://www.lafoauto.com/
Is this legal?
- Thread starter rc
- Start date
I am not a lawyer and I do not give legal advice. I did read the following several years ago:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/24/solvent-traps-still-illegal-use-intended/
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https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/24/solvent-traps-still-illegal-use-intended/
.
Wow! That begs the question for me: Does an oil filter screwed on the barrel of a gun actually suppress the sound? As a young person (many, many years ago), there was always some yahoo who would say in a sage manner, "...if you put a condom (or baby bottle nipple), on the end of .22 rimfire, it will work as a silencer." By actually testing those items, I found that the "sage" did not know what he was talking about...they did not work.
So, would an oil filter actually significantly suppress the sound of firing or is that just more condom/nipple nonsense from the sage at the end of the bar?
So, would an oil filter actually significantly suppress the sound of firing or is that just more condom/nipple nonsense from the sage at the end of the bar?
The short answer...YES. There were tons of youtube vids of the “old style” actual Fram type oil filters screwed onto the end of 22’s that clearly reduced the sound. I may or may not have seen them first hand at the local club. Ive always just shot my tax stamped legal suppressors.
The legalities were always explained as such...
It is a solvent trap. Nothing else...once it had a hole in the end (from an exiting bullet) you could no longer make that claim
If it lowers the sound by 1db it constitutes a suppressor in the eyes of the BATF. If a part or any combination of parts fit or can be made to fit a firearm and lower the sound by 1db, it’s a suppressor in the eyes of the BATF. Their ruling on this is so broadly written that most anything in your home could be considered parts for the making of. Been there, done that and it wasn’t even real firearm related. Didn’t matter. Cease and desist or go to jail.
The thing with these “solvent traps” and the like is people think the linguistic gymnastics will save them. They won’t. Odds are the Man won’t come looking, but if someone were to say, send one of those adapters along with an appropriate oil filter and demand an official ruling, guess how that’s going to go. And then there is a strong chance they WILL come looking for whoever is making the adapters, and give them a choice like the one I outlined above. Like I said, been there and done that and they have ZERO sense of humor.
The thing with these “solvent traps” and the like is people think the linguistic gymnastics will save them. They won’t. Odds are the Man won’t come looking, but if someone were to say, send one of those adapters along with an appropriate oil filter and demand an official ruling, guess how that’s going to go. And then there is a strong chance they WILL come looking for whoever is making the adapters, and give them a choice like the one I outlined above. Like I said, been there and done that and they have ZERO sense of humor.
Those kits can easily be used to build your own suppressor, which is perfectly legal as long as you have filed a Form 1 and paid your fee. However, you're running a risk if you start buying parts before your paperwork is filed and approved. It's best to get all the paperwork done before you buy even the first part for your build.
Bill DeShivs
New member
And even if you do it legally, who wants an oil filter screwed on the end of your gun?
FrankenMauser
New member
The ones that use undrilled baffles, I can understand being legal, even if it's a bit tenuous.
But the ones that use fully-machined monocores... Nope. They're just waiting for the ATF to catch wind of it.
However, that does not matter from a legal perspective. The ATF has had upheld in court that intent is what matters, not efficacy.
You can stuff a toilet paper roll full of pillow stuffing and tape it to the end of the barrel, and be in violation of the law. Anyone with a brain knows that it will not work, and will be destroyed with a single use.
But that doesn't matter. That exact scenario result in convictions for a man that used 'teddy bear stuffing'.
I can't remember what case that was. I'm sure someone else here is familiar with it.
But the ones that use fully-machined monocores... Nope. They're just waiting for the ATF to catch wind of it.
Yes, it does work - especially with low powered cartridges, like .22 rimfire.
However, that does not matter from a legal perspective. The ATF has had upheld in court that intent is what matters, not efficacy.
You can stuff a toilet paper roll full of pillow stuffing and tape it to the end of the barrel, and be in violation of the law. Anyone with a brain knows that it will not work, and will be destroyed with a single use.
But that doesn't matter. That exact scenario result in convictions for a man that used 'teddy bear stuffing'.
I can't remember what case that was. I'm sure someone else here is familiar with it.
this is what I have always heard, as well. The crime is the intent to silence the firearm (without proper prior Fed approval).
Even is the device does not work, does not reduce the sound to any measurable degree, if the intent is proven in court, conviction will follow.
In that sense, its like a "bad" bomber, if you make a bomb that fails to go off, you're still guilty.
SO, if you are selling an "oil filter" as an oil filter, no matter what use it may be put to by the customer, your INTENT was just to sell an oil filter. Technically. And that might possibly hold up in court.
However, if you include explanations/instructions on how it might be mounted on a firearm or supply information where to get such instruction, along with your "oil filter" then a jury might decide you have the intent it be used as a silencer.
Were I on such a jury, and intent was demonstrated to my satisfaction, I would vote to convict.
The people finding "work arounds" to the law are bad for us, in general, as, in addition to quite possibly setting up people to fall into legal traps, these kinds of things ("hey, its legal!!…") reduce the drive to remove those bad laws.
MagnumWill
New member
I've always wanted to Form 1 a Kong dog toy with zero modification for my .22.
Everyone with a labrador has unlicensed suppressor parts- lol!
It even comes with peanut butter for use as an ablative material
Everyone with a labrador has unlicensed suppressor parts- lol!
It even comes with peanut butter for use as an ablative material
I remember the old "put a 2-liter plastic pop bottle on your gun as a silencer" thing. It does work for 22LR, but we were terribly disappoimted for the 22-250. Plastic schrapnel is not good for your skin. Like a lot of experimenting, we decided it was fun but that was enough of that game.
If you want to suppress a rifle, get a real suppressor. Anything sold as an oil or solvent trap might work OK, but if it injures you or someone else it isn't worth it. And as stated above, the ATF guys have pretty much no sense of humor.
If you want to suppress a rifle, get a real suppressor. Anything sold as an oil or solvent trap might work OK, but if it injures you or someone else it isn't worth it. And as stated above, the ATF guys have pretty much no sense of humor.