Is there something wrong with the Makarov?

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Trey45

New member
I have noticed a resurgence in popularity of the 380acp cartridge with the introduction of several new pocket pistols over the last few years. Touting lightweight thin single stack designs, this new breed of pocket autos is vying for a place of prominence that rivals that of the J frames. Unless I am badly mistaken, all of these new pocket autos are DAO with 6 or 7 round capacity, which isn't bad unless you consider the almost anemic nature of the 380acp. Which begs the question, Is there something wrong with the Makarov? Not necessarily the Makarov pistol, but pistols chambered in 9x18. How about the Polish P64 or the Hungarian FEG PA-63? Nice flat small pistols that can be fired DA/SA and with a spring kit they can actually have a decent trigger. A slight step up in size of course is the Makarov itself, offering years of proven, reliable service in various ex combloc countries. It's a better cartridge, in my opinion and many others than the 380acp. It almost seems like a step backwards with these new pocket autos being chambered in 380. I halfway expect to see the newest thing released, a pocket auto in 25acp, who knows maybe they'll bring back the baby browning! Do these new pocket autos have a place? I'm sure they do, but they seem to be the answer to a question that was asked over 50 years ago.
S&W got it right with their Shield in 9mm and 40S&W, Kahr got it right a long time ago with their line of small semi's. I'm not 100% sold that these 380 autos got it right. Especially when the 9x18's have been doing it right for such a long time with a better cartridge.
 
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BigJimP

New member
Is there something wrong with the Makarov ..??? ..not really, although I'm not a fan of it personally...

Yes - I think all of these questions on pocket guns -- and J frames --- or whatever --- / and what calibers are suitable for defense / and mag capacity .. / holster style ..., etc ...are all just retreads over time !

Calibers and platforms go in and out of style ...and vary a lot by age group ...how you like to carry ...where you live ....whether you want to carry or not ...etc / just like I will tell you that a full sized 1911, 5" gun in .45 acp makes the perfect carry gun ...not much of a pocket gun / but in a good holster its easy to carry ...( but a lot of guys under 50 yrs old will wrinkle their nose up at the thought ...) ...

... all platforms, all calibers come in and out of favor all the time....

I had a young guy tell me yesterday at the range...he will only consider a gun to be a viable carry gun if it holds at least 15 rounds...ok, but that sure takes a lot of options off the table....( but then I was at the range shooting a large frame 5 shot single action revolver...) and what he wasn't saying was (at least to my face ) ...is why did you buy that beast ...its not a good carry gun ...his only focus is on "carry guns" ...vs my more generic approach to "guns" ...1911's, revolvers, Sigs, etc....
 
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Trey45

New member
Oh boy do I ever see your point Jim. I too know people whose only focus on handguns is carryability. I look at them in 3 ways I guess, range toys, CCW pieces, and hunting pieces, and have some of each.

I guess what I was trying to get at and didn't do a very good job of it was this, with all the "new" focus on the 380acp as a viable pocket auto, it seems as if the gun world at large has forgotten about the venerable 9x18's as another choice for pocket carry. They've been around a mighty long time, over 50 years in some cases, and are less expensive than any of these new 380's are. This also makes me curious as to why these same gun makers don't offer these same plastic pocket autos in 9x18. It's a definite step up from 380, and can still be used in a blowback gun.
 
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dwhite

New member
Makarov problems

While it's a great round 9mm Makarov uses a 0.362" diameter bullet whereas 9mm Luger and .380 Auto use 0.355" bullets. From a reloading standpoint this is one more item to stock. Something about the Russians didn't want NATO/American ammo to somehow fit their guns.

I don't know of any NEW guns being offered in 9MM Mak though I may be missing something. People like new.

All the Best,
D. White
 
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CWKahrFan

New member
I like 9x18 a lot... and my spruced-up CZ82 is one of my very favorite guns.

But, to me, weight is a big factor for carry so I carry my LCP .380 more than any other. Even with the 10-rd. extended mag which I ALWAYS use (IWB) the gun LOADED only weighs 14 oz.!

9x18 all-metal guns are considerably heavier.

The way I see it, there's kind of a new wave of CCWer's spawned by the recent changes in right-to-carry laws. A lot of 'em, like me, just want to carry something light and don't feel a need to be prepared for an all-out firefight.
 
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dayman

New member
I carry a .380 because it packs an okay punch, and it's easy to conceal without having to dress like someone who's concealing a gun.
I have a friend who carries a Mak, and he loves it, but it's not really all that small. It's the only gun I've seen in that caliber, so I can't say anything to the other models mentioned.
Also, I like having a warranty and the ability to buy ammo at the general store.

That being said, if a reputable manufacturer put out a comprablely easy to conceal gun in 9Mak, and a reputable manufacturer started putting out SD rounds for it, I'd probably buy it.
 
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Opinated

New member
One of my friends treasures his Makarov. But apparently Fiochhi is the only currently manufactured ammo he can find for it. And that is catch-as-catch-can. I am not certain of the caliber of his.
 
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B. Lahey

New member
It doesn't help that there is no proper HP ammo available in 9x18mm. The current crop of rooski HPs don't expand, and the US made HPs that do expand severely underpenetrate.

I wish it was otherwise. A 9x18mm Barnes X load or something similar would be a godsend.
 
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SHNOMIDO

New member
Hows the hornady critical defense 9x18?

And what about a hard cast flat nose? i think buffalo bore makes a pretty nasty one in 9x18

Id really like to get a mak, and those are the bullets (factory cartridges) I would be looking at.

Any experience anyone?
 
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Cheapshooter

New member
Not necessarily the Makarov pistol, but pistols chambered in 9x18. How about the Polish P64 or the Hungarian FEG PA-63? Nice
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Compared to the pocket 380's like the Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec P3AT, and others it's size, and substantial weight. The 9X18 Mak is essentially equal to the 380ACP. A gun like the Ruger LC9, KAHR PM or CM 9 that are chambered for 9MM +P ammo are similar in size to the P64, but still lighter.Not knocking the Makarov, I have an E. German Mak, CZ82, and P64. All are great shooters. However my pocket carry guns are either my Elsie Pea, or KAHR CM9.
 
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Hairbag

New member
Makarov is a great gun I have a east german mak that I won't part with. Alot of guys who carry a 380 or 9x18 prefer FMJ over hollow points for better penatration. The P64 is a great gun too and is a great buy for $200
 
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BlueTrain

New member
Not everyone agrees that smaller and lighter is better. In fact, with revolvers there seems to have been a split, with smaller and lighter revolvers chambered in more powerful cartridges, and larger and heavier revolvers chambered in even more powerful cartridges. But who carries revolvers anymore?

Assuming you're speaking of the 9mm Makarov cartridge itself, I don't think there's enough of a difference between that and the .380 to make introducing a newly manufactured pistol in that caliber worth the trouble. Others may think otherwise. Walther manufactured a pistol a few decades ago in what was called, I think, the 9mm Ultra or 9mm Police, because someone didn't think the .380 was good enough, only it was really intended to replace the .32 ACP pistols that German police were commonly using at the time. I assume they had to shoot more then than they do now, now that they're using the powerful 9mm Luger.
 
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jasmith85

New member
I am a fan of the 9mm Makarov cartridge. My IJ-70 is almost always with me when I leave the house. A few weeks after I bought it I sold my LCP which had been my carry gun. Not only does it feel better to me when I fire it but I also like having a hammer. I know they're well made and should never go off on their own but DAO's make me nervous when there is a round in the chamber.
 
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torpeau

New member
Assuming you're speaking of the 9mm Makarov cartridge itself, I don't think there's enough of a difference between that and the .380
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Compare factory specs of a lower powered .380 with a higher powered 9x18 could yield nearly 25% more umph for the 9x18.
 
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JonathanZ

New member
The problem with the Makarov is it's not as good as the Parabellum and it's a lot more expensive to shoot. You won't save much of anything in the size of the gun with the cases being 1 mm shorter. There is also a lack of quality self defense ammunition available. There's really no point in trying to make a subcompact Makarov when it doesn't fill a need that is not already filled.

I personally think the .380's are a fad that will go away with the smaller and smaller 9mm Lugers available. Some people will still buy them cause a 9mm will always have more recoil, but not me. I did briefly consider one, but the cost of ammo and the new micro 9mm's quickly ended that thought.
 
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Trey45

New member
I'm seeing a trend following what Jonathan illustrated, these new micro 9's are getting the attention that the 380's were and still are to a lesser extent.

As far as defense ammo for the 9x18 goes, I'd rather use FMJ to get the penetration rather than risk not getting enough penetration due to using an expanding bullet. If for some reason I ever carried a 380, which at this point in my life I do not see ever happening, but lets say for some reason I decided to carry one, the last thing I would use would be any type of expanding ammo, it would be FMJ or hardcast, or nothing at all.

Speaking of hardcast, theres an NOE group buy mold for the 9x18 that boasts a pretty impressive meplat, that might be interesting to play around with as a hardcast.
 
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vladan

New member
The appeal of Makarov cartridge is in its curio and relic category.
For normal shooter it is just another cartridge that is foreign to domestic scene, lies smack in the middle of two popular calibers that cover the needs for small defensive cartridge in 99% of the time and introduce weird diameter specific only to this cartridge which introduce another full set-up and stock-up for reloader.
That being said, I enjoy shooting my Makarov chambered guns, be that CZ82, Makarov, P64 or PA63 and reload for it ... just not sure if I would buy LCP in that caliber :)

By dwhite: Something about the Russians didn't want NATO/American ammo to somehow fit their guns.
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Exactly the other way around. Russians learned from the war and after the WW2 wanted to prevent potential invaders being able to use captured ammo.
 
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