Is My Sa 1911 Defective?

[joegator]

I recently picked up a SA Loaded 1911. Prior to going to the range I decided to break it down. I'm familiar with military spec 1911s which is what I was issued in the service. This is my first one with a full length guide rod.

I opened the manual and other than unscrewing the front portion of the guide rod with an Allen wrench the manual described the disassembly the same as the old military models.

The manual says to depress the recoil spring plug and turn the bushing clockwise until it rotates off the plug (usually about 90 degrees from 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock position).

Here's the problem: the bushing only rotates about 45 degrees and does not clear the plug.

I called SA and was told to disassemble by removing the slide stop after unscrewing the guide rod and pull the frame off with the spring still loaded. I tried this and had a problem putting it back together.

I brought it to the gun shop where I purchased it and after struggling with it for 15 minutes and shooting some parts across the store (good thing I ducked) the owner was eventually able to get it put back together with the help of some tools. The gunshop owner said that I would have to take the slide off then rotate the bushing counter clockwise with a bushing wrench to remove the bushing. He WAS NOT able to clear the plug turning the bushing clockwise as the manual instructed either.

This is not a procedure I want to try to duplicate on my own especially after watching him struggle with his tools for 15 minutes. I asked him if the gun was defective and he said no.

My question is if the gun is not defective why won't it break down like every other 1911 which how the manual says it should?

Is the gun defective? Does it need to go back to SA?

If I can't get this issue resolved I'll be shopping for a 21SF!!

 

[45_Shooter]

The manual says to depress the recoil spring plug and turn the bushing clockwise until it rotates off the plug (usually about 90 degrees from 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock position).

Here's the problem: the bushing only rotates about 45 degrees and does not clear the plug.

One way it goes 45, the other 90. The way that goes 90 is for pulling the recoil spring plug, the way that goes 45 deg is for removing the bushing from the slide. Tight fitting or even just new bushings can require a bushing wrench.

Dump the full length guide rod IMO. All it does is add a bit of weight to the front of the pistol and make it require an allen wrench to disassemble.

 

[joegator]

The problem is it only goes 45 degrees in either direction. It doesn't go 90 clockwise like it's supposed to.

 

[Sarge]

If it's a full size 1911 and you like the gun otherwise, you could just ditch all that post-modern crap and replace it with the GI recoil spring guide, spring and plug.

 

[Sturmgewehre]

Once it was apart, did you inspect the front of the slide and look at the slots cut in there for the bushing to rotate? Was it cut properly or was there a burr in there that would prevent the bushing from rotating?

If it's not rotating 90 degrees, there's something wrong. You shouldn't need a bushing wrench to disassemble the gun.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

Once it was apart, did you inspect the front of the slide and look at the slots cut in there for the bushing to rotate? Was it cut properly or was there a burr in there that would prevent the bushing from rotating?

If it's not rotating 90 degrees, there's something wrong. You shouldn't need a bushing wrench to disassemble the gun.

+1. What you are describing isn't normal and you shouldn't need a bushing wrench to disassemble this gun.

SA customer service has a reputation of being outstanding. I'd contact them again, tell them the bushing only rotates 45 degres both clock and counter clockwise and you'd like them to fix the problem.

After the gun comes back from Springfield, as mentioned above, ditch the FLGR and replace it was a GI rod and plug. I've got a SA TRP and replaced mine with an Ed Brown replace plug and rod for around $20.

 

[Sturmgewehre]

After the gun comes back from Springfield, as mentioned above, ditch the FLGR and replace it was a GI rod and plug. I've got a SA TRP and replaced mine with an Ed Brown replace plug and rod for around $20.

+1

That was one of the first things I did to mine. The FLGR is useless and I have having to mess with it on disassembly. Not to mention, if you don't keep Loctite on it will loosen while shooting and cause problems (like the end of the rod goes flying down range).

 

[Fremmer]

It's probably too early in the morning for me to be posting, and they're replacing my roof (bang...bang...bang...:barf, but can't he test the movement of the bushing without fully assembling the gun? I seem to recall that the bushing will move 45 one way and 90 the other way when you're reassembling the gun with the bushing in the gun, but before you mash the plug down onto the spring for final assembly? Or do I need more coffee?

 

[jece]

I agree with FREMMER there is no need to disassemble to just check the bushing.BY the way FREMMER i can hear the bang bang bang too.I live behind you with the three blue spruces in the back yard. Small World,cute pugster dogs.

 

[Sturmgewehre]

but can't he test the movement of the bushing without fully assembling the gun?

Umm, he did test it and it didn't move 90 degrees. So that test has been done. To look inside to see if the channel is properly cut (or if it has a burr) you'll have to disassemble it... unless you have x-ray vision.

 

[Fremmer]

LOL. Well thank goodness I'm here to tell him to check for burrs that might be holding up that bushing from properly moving.

Man, it is a small world. Sorry about all of the noise, Jece. I have to paint soon, I hope I don't fall off the roof and break my neck!

 

[WhyteP38]

Gotta agree with replacing the FLGR with a standard setup. Did that to my SA Loaded because I could never get the damn@d thing to stop unscrewing itself at the range. Never regretted changing it out.

However, that won't do squat for the bushing issue. If the bushing will only go 45 degrees either way, something is wrong with either the bushing or the slide.

Before sending it to SA, I'd check to see if I could figure out which part is the problem. If it's the slide, send the slide and bushing back. If it's the bushing, see if SA will pop one into the mail for you. (Assuming the bushing is at fault, it's just less hassle for you and SA to have them mail you a new one rather than box up the thing and take it to the post office. Or, if it's the bushing, you may want to get a new one from a local gunsmith and have it fitted, which might improve accuracy.)

 

[Kreyzhorse]

Not to mention, if you don't keep Loctite on it will loosen while shooting and cause problems (like the end of the rod goes flying down range).

Mine never flew down range but the damn thing would not stay tight when shooting. Replacing the FLGR is the best thing you can do to a Springfield that has one.

 

[cjw3cma]

Sarge is 101% correct. Full length guide rods (FLGR) were not part of the original design and while it does have some advantages, it is not necessary to make your gun operate. If you get use to the removal process, leave it in place, but if you want to be able to field strip easily then replace it with the standard parts and enjoy your gun more.

 

[Hawg]

A really tight bushing will require a wrench to remove. I like a FLGR because all you have to do is push out the slide stop and remove the slide assembly as a single unit. You don't have to remove the bushing unless you want to break the slide assembly down to it's components.

 

[joegator]

Thanks for all of the feedback.

I called SA customer service this morning and they told me to send it back and they e-mailed me a Fed-X label. Hopefully I won't have to wait too long to get it back. I'm kind of depressed. I waited years to finally get a 1911 and now that I have one I can't shoot it. I guess I'll just have to wait a few more weeks.

When I do get it back I am going to seriously consider removing the FLGB.

 

[BigJimP]

I'm the odd guy out here - but I like and prefer the full length guide rod / and to me its not a big deal to use a bushing wrench for takedown. I have ordered all of my 1911's with full length guide rods from Wilson, etc. and will continue to do so.

I find the short guide rods a pain in the butt and I worry about kinking a spring putting it back together. On a brand new gun / the bushings take some work to get them out / but then I use a lot of lube (break free for me) when I put them back together - and they get better. But some adjustment in it might be in order / but Springfield is not know for ridiculously tight bushings like Les Baer is ( and his are too tight, in my view ).

Hope they get the gun back to you asap.

 

[WESHOOT2]

rods

I bought a used SA in 9x19; it shot fine, and was very accurate (when dirty).
I replaced the factory bushing with a tightly fit Nowlin; it shot accurately when clean.


I sent the gun to EGW for numerous custom changes; it returned to me fine.
Then I installed a GI rod; gun galled.
Fixed gall; gun still failed.
Reinstalled its factory FLGR; gun runs awesome.

Hmmm....


(I put that GI set-up in my SA 40 S&W; it runs fine.
I remain confused, until I think hard about it.)

 

[wingman]

Springfield loaded model with a flgr works great, super accurate. Take down and reassemble with a wrench takes a little getting use to but after that easy. It does require slight pressure in turning right to 90 degrees but again just a short learning curve and you'll be ok.

 

[David Armstrong]

I called SA customer service this morning and they told me to send it back and they e-mailed me a Fed-X label. Hopefully I won't have to wait too long to get it back. I'm kind of depressed. I waited years to finally get a 1911 and now that I have one I can't shoot it. I guess I'll just have to wait a few more weeks.

Good luck. After eight (8) trips back to SA, mine (LW Champion) finally was able to shoot a whole magazine without any problems.