Is it worth it?

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Hello all. I never casted before and never really had any desire, but where I work they are getting rid of about 50# of lead sheilding used in radiology.

It got me thinking that maybe I could melt those down into igots then start casting.

I know very little about casting, so is it worth it? With all the risk and time and capitol involved with getting started I mean.

I don't know anyone who does it so I'd have to teach myself too, something I woudln't be too fond of using hot metal and stuff.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mike / Tx]

Hey Steve...

For starters if you can snag he lead ....DO SO!!

Whether or not you decide to get into casting your own bullets or not, you can always trade it off to someone who does, for something you could use, like some jacketed bullets in your favorite calibers.

As for casting your own, it isn't as hard as one might think, but does require a few extra precautions. As for the initial investment, well you can get as wild or mild as you want. Depending on just what your wanting or curious about casting, and how much stuff you may already have to donate to the cause, you could possibly get into it for right around a hundred bucks or less including your molds and sizing dies.

You wold need a heat source, like a Coleman stove, or fish cooker. A smelting pot which doesn't have to be all that big simply something to melt down your alloy in, that isn't ceramic or anti stick coated. You need something to pour your alloy into for ingots which can be just about anything that isn't aluminum, quite a few use the Dollar store muffin tins, or old cast iron corn bread molds. You would need something to dip and pour with like a big soup ladle, or similar. The thing is you can use most things you find at a .99 store or dollar store to start off with, so your not dumping a lot of cash in it up front.

As for the molds, Lee makes them cheap enough for anyone to pour up some decent bullets with and if you like it then you can look into getting something a bit better. Also Lee has about the best sizing system on the market for only about $20 per caliber, and it will work with just about any type loading press.

Anyway hope this answered a couple of your questions anyway.

 

[ricklaut]

Steve -

I've reloaded for two years, and have been casting for 1 1/2 months, and I too had access to a free lead source (wheel weights). I spent a little more than I really needed to on casting equipment (about $200), but in this short time I've cast close to 2000 bullets across 3 calibers. I've already paid off my investment and I'm shooting more (a lot more).

It isn't hard - between this forum and castboolits, there is lots of help. Just follow the safety precautions...

Reloading is awesome. Casting + reloading is amazing. Knowing that you created the projectile you're sending downrange (and saved a ton of cash, and get to shoot more because of it) is priceless.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I am just getting into casting.

I got started with crappy Lee molds, an old (rusty) dutch oven, and a turkey fryer. (It doesn't take as much heat as you think, to smelt/melt lead -- on a 20 lb propane tank, I can run the fryer for about a week, at smelting/casting temperatures; in contrast to about 6 hours for frying turkeys.)

Here, let me give you a break down of how I got started: (the local thrift store didn't make much off me, but I was happy about finding the pans and spoons.)
Pans for pan lubing and collecting dross - $4
Metal spoons for skimming dross - $2.50
Dutch oven - Free (from Crankylove)
Turkey fryer - Free (I use it for turkeys, catfish, and crawfish )
Propane - about $6 per session (roughly $1.86 / lb, I believe)
SPG bullet lube - $15 per half-brick (I have since gone to White Label Lubes, which are better, and cheaper.)

Lee 429-200-RFP mold - $18
Lee .430 Sizer - $19
Rowen 1 lb dipper - $24

For $82.50, I was ready to take my own cast bullets from scrap/ingot to being fired again.
(The prices on the mold, sizer, and dipper can be beaten, too.)


There was a complication for me, though. I bought another Lee mold, the .429-310-RFP, for my .444 Marlin. It has a barrel with a .428" bore and .432" grooves. That means the .430" sizer won't work. The mold has two very different cavities, though (Lee molds aren't exactly top of the line). One cavity drops a bullet at .430" x .432", and the other cavity drops a bullet at .434" x .439". For now, the 'little' guy just gets tossed back into the pot. but, the big guy needs to be sized to fit in my chamber.
To size them, I have two choices:
1. Buy a luber/sizer. ~$200 to get set up. ...not gonna happen right now.
2. Find some one that makes custom push-through sizing dies. CH4D takes too long (and wants $66+), but Ranch Dog Outdoors sells a $15 .432" custom Lee sizer, that they (he) have produced in batch quantities.

The Lee molds do suck. They're sloppy, unfinished, unpredictable, and ugly. But they're cheap, easy to use, easy to locate, readily available, and make it fairly easy to produce half decent bullets. For 95% of shooters, a Lee mold is MORE than they will ever need.

Tonight, I was casting some .315" 115 gr HPs from my NOE 314316 FPGC/HP mold ($107, without handles). But, I kept over heating it. To kill the time while waiting for the mold to cool, I was casting some more of the Lee 429-200-RFPs, because it's just so quick and easy to cast usable bullets with that mold. (The 429-200 mold actually has a significant alignment issue, that requires me to align the mold with my hands for each pour; but it heats up quickly and kicks out good bullets in no time at all.)

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

OK, looks like I'm all in, but I have a few questions as to what to buy. I want to get good stuff even if it's a bit more expensive.

1. Two cavity vs four cavity. Four seems better than two right? Twice as fast? What am I missing here?

2. Tumble lube vs standard lube ring. What's better? I've only shot bullets with a standard ring, but tumble lubing looks a lot easier right? Just squirt in some lube and jumble them around?

3. Lee $65 Lyman $65 RCBS $76 Saeco $96. These are the prices of their two cavity molds. Are the more expensive ones better for some reason?

4. Casting furnaces. The Lee one is $64 and the RCBS is $380! They just melt lead and spit it out the bottom, why is one so much more expensive?

I'll have many more questions later I'm sure. Thanks for any input!

 

[Shootest]

1) a 4 cavity is about 90% faster than a 2 cavity, not quite twice as fast. However the 4 cav cost much more.
2) if you shoot as cast your right, I always size bullets to assure correct diameter. And if you size you might as well lube in 1 step.
3) Lee 2 cav moulds are $20 not $65(probably a typo). Steel/iron moulds hold up better than aluminum, not to mention Lee handles are really cheap and tend to fall apart after a while.
4) I use a #20lb Lee furnace, it works good and I see no reason to buy a RCBS/Lyman at those prices. They will last a lifetime but if the Lee lasts 10/20 years, replacing it would still be much cheaper.

 

[jaguarxk120]

If your loading for a odd caliber rifle/handgun then it's worth it.

Casting for pistol/rifle in quanity it's worth it.

Expanding your handloading skills -- it's worth it.

Shooting cheap low power loads -- it's worth it.

 

[David Bachelder]

Yes, its worth it to me. I figure its another notch in the handle, when it comes to reloading. All knowledge is good. I didn't do the math but I'd guess casting is about like reloading. You'll save anywhere from 30 to 65% casting your own.

30 to 65% is a big range because some of the materials are harder to get than what you read about on the web. First of all, you can pretty much forget wheel weights, nowadays they are scarce as hens teeth. At least around here they are. I was fortunate, my Dad had a pile of plumbers lead stocked away in his garage. So for me the lead was free. I did spend money buying tin and Superhard alloy from RotoMetals I figured it was a good investment and will give me a better product in the end. I bought a Lyman mold, LEE ingot molds, LEE 4 X 20 furnace. Later I bought a LEE mold. The LEE mold works better than what I was lead to believe. I like it as good or better as the Lyman for now. I think the differences will be more obvious with age. The Lyman is quite a bit beefier, if you know what I mean.


Anyway it's a no brainer. It will save you some money and there is always the satisfaction of rolling your own.

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Thanks for the input guys. I think I've got a plan on what to buy now.

My next problem is that I have no idea what the actual content of the lead I'm using is. I took what we call a Pig, which is a lead container that was used to hold a radioactive source. I assume it's pure lead, but I don't know for sure. Is there a way to find out?

I'm going to start with a 158gr .38 special so it won't go much more than 800-900fps. If I cast pure lead and quench it, do you think it will be hard enough for those speeds? Or do I need to add some other metals?

 

[David Bachelder]

If I had to guess you most likely will need to get some tin, and possibly a source of antimony.

Tin is used at 2 to 5% depending on the caster. Antimony is used at about 5%, again depending on the caster.

I like the Lyman #2 alloy. Its comparable to linotype. BHN should run around 12 to 15%.

Lyman #2 is:
90% lead
5% tin
5% Antimony

The best source for antimony I've been able to find is RotoMetals Super Hard alloy. They did all the work by premixing it with lead. The advantage is that you won't have to melt pure antimony (melting point 1167 Degrees F). The alloy they offer is 30:70, or 30% Antimony and 70% lead. Using thier product you will only need normal lead casting temperatures (700 to 800 degrees F +/-). Lead actually melts at 621.77 degrees F

Take the plunge, its fun.

 

[Stick_man]

I took what we call a Pig, which is a lead container that was used to hold a radioactive source. I assume it's pure lead, but I don't know for sure. Is there a way to find out?

That "Pig" is also known as "Isotope lead" and is nearly a perfect handgun bullet casting alloy. I believe it has 2% tin, 2% antimony, and 96% lead. It melts down clean (very little waste) and casts wonderfully with nothing added but a little heat. Over on CastBoolits website, there are a couple guys selling those containers for about $1/lb. Get as many of those as you can, especially if they are free.

Casting your own bullets will save you anywhere from 20%-85% on bullet costs, depending on how much you have to pay for your alloy.

I would recommend getting some books on casting and read, read, read, and read some more. The Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #3 and #4 are excellent choices. There are also great resources on the 'net that can be priceless. Check out the Cast Bullet Association, CastPics, and CastBoolits websites. Between those three sites, ANY question you may have can be answered. Many, many casters there with pure love off the hobby.
Aside from the usual safety precautions against burns (700+ degree molten metal burns quickly and painfully), make sure to keep all moisture away from the molten lead.

Last note of caution: Casting bullets is very addictive.

Welcome to the wonderful world of casting. Be safe, be careful, and enjoy.

Happy Casting!

 

[Edward429451]

You may want to consider buying an actual sizer/lubricator machine. It is a little more outlay to get going but in my opinion is far superior to the tumble lube route, and less messy.

Tumble lubing has to work or no one would do it, so its really preference. But my finished boolits look better than ones that have been TL. I have a RanchDog TL mould and I send those boolits through my Lyman 450 and it applys lube to the TL grooves just fine.

 

[FrankenMauser]

There is a third option for lubrication and sizing:
Pan lubing, and Lee push-through sizers (if available in the size needed).

Pan lubing is very time consuming, but will allow you to use bullets with traditional lube grooves. But, it doesn't cost any more than tumble lubing.

Using the push-through sizer afterward is no different than doing so with tumble lubed bullets. ...except that TL bullets should be re-lubed after sizing, where pan-lubed bullets are good to go.

I don't know anyone that planned on pan lubing forever, when they got started. But, it's a cheap way to start lubing, with almost zero equipment costs. (zero, if you use old, cut off soup cans, or other free containers)

 

[Rangefinder]

My 450 Lyman doesn't even get looked at these days--LLA or 45-45-10 for lube and push through sizers run everything.

My cast reloads run me $.04 to .20 each. About the only way to do it any cheaper is for someone to give me free powder and primers. Yes, it is definitely worth it--both in cost as well as personal satisfaction.

 

[Mike / Tx]

Wel first off here is about one of the most valuable sources you will find on casting your own, download it, print it, and keep it handy,
Glen Fryxell's
Articles

Also you will want to pick out and download either or both of these fine calculators put together by Castboolit Members,
Lead Alloy Spreadsheet

Spreadsheet calculator for mixing alloys

These will get you in the ball park for blending your alloy to what you will need for your purpose.

As for the Lee molds, well you get out of them what you put into them. If you beat and bang on them, then yep they will be trash in no time. If you read up on them a bit on the Castboolits site, about the different methods of polishing and pinning the alignment pins and such then they will function and last quite a long time.

Two cavity verses four or more, well to be honest, I started with the Lee six cavity for the same reason as you had in your post, production. I started pouring for my 454 last fall and have now successfully graduated into several others calibers as well. The trick with them is temp and pour rate. Pick up a small single or double burner hotplate at a local big box store and you will have the perfect mold warmer, as well as something to put your ingots on top of prior to adding them to your pot. Get you molds up to around 285-300 degrees to start with and you will only have a couple of throw backs once you start to pour. If you don't want to go the pre heat route, then start off with one cavity, and work you way down the mold, pouring a half dozen or more from each cavity before adding another one. When you start to get the mold too hot your bullets will have a frosted look to them, at this point you will need to let it cool a touch or adjust your pour rate. A cheap clock with a second hand works great to set a rhythm.

Lubes and sizing, well thee are lots of opinions on this either way. Mine is, I didn't want or need another piece of equipment mounted to my bench. I decided to start off with the tunble lube and see where it got me, and to date 98% of my boolits have been done in this manner. The shape doesn't matter at all when using this method, as the lube is applied to the surfaces of the bullet where it matters. As was mentioned the 45/45/10 recipe is a good one which allows your boolits to dry in only an hour or so, where the straight alox will take all night sometimes. Also there is a bit of a learning curve when you start adding the lube to your bullets. At first you will be like everyone else and put in too much thinking that can't be enough, when it usually is. The Lee sizers are great in my opinion. You simply stand the bullet on the post and shove it through. The one thing that is an issue with them is alignment of the bottom pin. If you use them enough you will find that one area will wear on them. I usually try and locate mine in a different location each time I use it to avoid rubbing off one side, but it will still happen over time. Even so for the amount of boolits that go through it and the price of a new one it isn't much a factor to me. Also if you need just a touch bigger size they are easily polished out a little bigger, with a little elbow grease and some compound.

Well hope this helps out some more in your quest to get started. AS the others have mentioned the sites offered up have most if not all the answers you will need, and if not simply ask as I guarantee someone there has been there done that, in one or more manner.

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Well, my stuff just came in the mail from Midway.

First question. My Lee molds have what looks like some burs around the base. Should I file these off? Or is it maybe part of a beveled base design?

I've also scored about 100lbs of lead from work today. I really want to start ingot making but it's a little moist outside so I'm not going to risk it.

Most of it is in giant doughnuts, pics to come. What's a safe way to melt these down? It's just slightly larger than my 10" pan so I was thinking about getting the larger cast iron pan, but the pan is then pretty darn heavy for one hand, and that's without any lead in it! I'm conserned that once it's full of lead I may drop it.

 

[Mike / Tx]

Well without knowing which mold you have I really couldn't say about the "burs", but pictures work well for this as well as mold numbers.

As for melting your lead down, the cast iron pot will work really well, just remember once you use it for lead it stays a lead pot, or scrap iron. Don't take a chance that someday someone might snag it up somehow to make stew in.

As for picking it up, you shouldn't have to do so unless it is down to the point you cannot dip anymore out of it. At this point I usually grab the tab on mine with a set of vice grips and holding he metal handle in one hand use the vice grips as another handle to raise up the side and pour the remaining bit into my ingot molds.

Wear gloves, safety glasses, and leather shoes or boots to protect your feet with just in case. Don't go grabbing up the full ingot mold with your gloved hands either, as it won't take you but a second to realize this wasn't a good idea. Use a set of pliers to simply flip them over onto a piece of plywood so they can cool while you fill up the molds again.

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Here's some pics. First is of these giant doughnuts. I'm not sure if they will fit in a pot. Dipping doesn't sound doable since I'm trying to make ingots out of it all so I need to pour it in a mold.

Second pic is my box'O Stuff

Third is of my crappy Lee mold. This one is TL358-158-SWC. I've got another TL for my .45 auto and a standard design for .45 Colt.

All of them have these messed up ridges. After examinging the molds more closely I can tell these jagged ridges are on other parts of the mold, and part of my .45 Colt mold doesn't have the ridge. I'm sure it's the product of poor manufacturing now.

I've started to take down the ridges with a file, but I"m going slow. I really don't want to mess up my molds. This is a real PITA! Not too happy with Lee right now

 

[FrankenMauser]

Cut the doughnuts into chunks with a pair of bolt cutters (or a beat up hatchet/axe), to get them down to a manageable size.

 

[jal5]

Steve instead of going after those ridges with a file, which might be too easy to take off too much metal, how about using one of the bullets from that cavity and use it as a reamer of sorts. By drilling a hole in the base for a screw you can spin that bullet in the cavity with some mild abrasive and rub that ridge off. The castboolits forum has a lot of info on "improving" the Lee molds- they call it Lee-menting the mold! Joe