joe sixgun
New member
To shoot bulk 5.56 in a bolt action rated .223? I am looking for a low budget bolt action but don't see any in 5.56. Only .223. Your thoughts?
is it safe
- Thread starter joe sixgun
- Start date
Well....maybe. But dont do it. 5.56 will chamber in any .223, but can have higher pressures that the .223 wasn't designed for. As a general rule, a gun chambered in 5.56 will handle either, but a gun chambered in .223 should really only see .223 cartridges. You can buy Federal .223 as inexpensively as you can Federal 5.56. Look for that stuff and you'll be fine.
joe sixgun
New member
Can 5.56 brass be reloaded as a .223?
Found this on the net, maybe it will help.
The difference between 5.56mm and .223 Remington cartridges isn't in the brass to any significant extent. Contrary to popular lore, military cases are not thicker or stronger but are more likely to be found annealed when purchased.
The meaningful difference is in the throat area of the two chambers. Specifically, the military throat enjoys a longer leade (distance between the end of the case mouth and start of the rifling) and a gentler angle-of-attack when the rifling does emerge. This configuration allows 5.56mm ammunition to be loaded slightly "hotter" than commercial ammunition. It also causes 5.56mm-throated guns to generate slightly less pressure with the same ammunition. (This situation is mirrored in the 6.8mm Remington SPC factory/SAAMI chamber vs the newer, higher-pressure-capable 6.8mm SPC II
The difference between 5.56mm and .223 Remington cartridges isn't in the brass to any significant extent. Contrary to popular lore, military cases are not thicker or stronger but are more likely to be found annealed when purchased.
The meaningful difference is in the throat area of the two chambers. Specifically, the military throat enjoys a longer leade (distance between the end of the case mouth and start of the rifling) and a gentler angle-of-attack when the rifling does emerge. This configuration allows 5.56mm ammunition to be loaded slightly "hotter" than commercial ammunition. It also causes 5.56mm-throated guns to generate slightly less pressure with the same ammunition. (This situation is mirrored in the 6.8mm Remington SPC factory/SAAMI chamber vs the newer, higher-pressure-capable 6.8mm SPC II
According to specs 5.56 CAN be loaded a little hotter than 223. That doesn't mean it IS loaded hotter than max 223 specs allow. Generally 5.56 chambered rifles have a little looser tolerances in the chamber for reliability, 223 chambers tend to be tighter to promote better accuracy. People have been using them interchangeably for a long time. I've never known of a serious problem other than some semi-auto's chambered in 223 not cycling reliably with 5.56.
It is one of those things not recommended, but I don't see you ever having a problem with a bolt rifle and factory loads which are usually loaded conservatively. I shoot it in mine, never had a problem, but I get much better accuracy shooting better quality 223 ammo, so I don't do it as often.
It is one of those things not recommended, but I don't see you ever having a problem with a bolt rifle and factory loads which are usually loaded conservatively. I shoot it in mine, never had a problem, but I get much better accuracy shooting better quality 223 ammo, so I don't do it as often.
joe sixgun
New member
How is the quality of the MVP? My son has the Patriot in 30-06 and it seems of good quality so far.
Before there was an Internet, the 5.56NATO and .223 Rem were the same thing. Just like 7.62NATO and .308 Win. Millions of rounds of both have been fired out of assorted milsurp rifles and commercial hunting rifles with no fuss.
"...low budget bolt action but don't see any in 5.56..." You won't. Mossberg's MVP is an entry level hunting rifle with a cool name. A Savage Axis is too. However, look at one of the Savage packages. Comes with a scope(Nikon or Weaver) for a tick less money.
"...low budget bolt action but don't see any in 5.56..." You won't. Mossberg's MVP is an entry level hunting rifle with a cool name. A Savage Axis is too. However, look at one of the Savage packages. Comes with a scope(Nikon or Weaver) for a tick less money.
I think the military 5.56 & 7.62 chamber is slightly larger, so a 5.56 in a .223 chamber is a tighter fit. , and may cause problems. The .223 in a 5.56 will chamber fine, headspace will be on the long side. As for reloading 5.56, sized in a .223 die would be fine only remember the thicker 5.56 case sized will has less inside space ,so lower your listed charge by 1.0 gr an you'll be fine.
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AFAIK, the .223 has been loaded only in modern rifles, not in any 19th century clunkers, so any .223 rifle should be capable of handling any minor pressure differences between the listed .223 specs and the listed 5.56 specs. I have fired many rounds of one in the other, both directions, and never noticed any difference.
Naturally, there are horror stories on the "network." There are always horror stories on the network. "Firing this round in that rifle will result in a mushroom cloud blast that will wipe out the county and spread radioactive debris over the whole state!!" Sure.
Jim
Naturally, there are horror stories on the "network." There are always horror stories on the network. "Firing this round in that rifle will result in a mushroom cloud blast that will wipe out the county and spread radioactive debris over the whole state!!" Sure.
Jim
4runnerman
New member
Plus 1 for what James said. I had the pleasure of shooting with the National Guard Marksmanship team last summer. The question came up from another shooter that was out there. All 5 of the team members said they havebeen shooting military 223 through there own 223's for years. Now we are talking thousands of rounds. It is not an issue at all to use Military ammo in a 223.
The only thing you will notice is a loss of accuracy and that could be an iffy too.
The only thing you will notice is a loss of accuracy and that could be an iffy too.
I dont believe you'll find a firearm manufacturer making .223 rifles, that are stamped .223 on their barrels, saying you can shoot 5.56 ammo. Just don't do it. .223 ammo can be had at the same price. If there's any doubt, call the rifle's manufacturer and ask them. I wouldn't go by what some people on the Internet tell you their buddy does.
Yes you can reload 5.56 brass to .223 standards. Like any rifle, you'd start low at a starting load and work up to be safe. Same bullets, powder, and primers for both.
Yes you can reload 5.56 brass to .223 standards. Like any rifle, you'd start low at a starting load and work up to be safe. Same bullets, powder, and primers for both.
4runnerman
New member
MJFlores-While it is great to error on the side of Caution as you say, This is not what people say or a buddy say's. This is actuall real live shooting going on. Year after year. Never a issue. Has been going on for many years now.
People drive drunk for many years too...and it all goes fine....,Until suddenly it doesn't. Always check with the manufacturer of the rifle...they're really where it starts and ends as far as how to use their product. They've all been very clear to only use .223 in a .223 chamber, and to feel free to use both in a 5.56 chamber. I can't even imagine why someone wouldn't follow that advice. .223 is readily available, and at the same price as 5.56.
Hi, MJFlores,
OK, since you are positive there will be problems, what have you seen that we should know about? Have you witnessed some problems, like damaged rifles or injured shooters. Believe me, if I thought any one would be in any danger from what I wrote, I would certainly correct myself, most willingly.
You talk about reloads, but you should be aware that rifle manufacturers always warn against firing any reloads, so you are disregarding your own advice about always heeding the gun maker's warnings.
Jim
OK, since you are positive there will be problems, what have you seen that we should know about? Have you witnessed some problems, like damaged rifles or injured shooters. Believe me, if I thought any one would be in any danger from what I wrote, I would certainly correct myself, most willingly.
You talk about reloads, but you should be aware that rifle manufacturers always warn against firing any reloads, so you are disregarding your own advice about always heeding the gun maker's warnings.
Jim
Sigh 
According to SAAMI spec, The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. DO NOT shoot 5.56 cartridges in a .223 chamber. It might go OK, it might end your life. Why on earth would you chance it when the ammo is the same price? It's completely irresponsible for someone to recommend doing so on a public forum. Go do some study, and then you can come back here and talk with the adults.
According to SAAMI spec, The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. DO NOT shoot 5.56 cartridges in a .223 chamber. It might go OK, it might end your life. Why on earth would you chance it when the ammo is the same price? It's completely irresponsible for someone to recommend doing so on a public forum. Go do some study, and then you can come back here and talk with the adults.
You should do what you think is right.
I know people have done it, and people do it, and I think if there was any kind of serious risk, we would have heard of numbers of failures by now.
We have not.
I believe that any modern rifle in proper working condition will handle a significant overpressure load without catastrophic failure.
I'm not saying it could not happen, but a LOT of people have been shooting a lot of 5.56mm ammo in a lot of rifles with .223 chambers FOR DECADES and to date, no catastrophic failures reported.
And there has been no tremendous shortening of rifle life reported, either.
I know people have done it, and people do it, and I think if there was any kind of serious risk, we would have heard of numbers of failures by now.
We have not.
I believe that any modern rifle in proper working condition will handle a significant overpressure load without catastrophic failure.
I'm not saying it could not happen, but a LOT of people have been shooting a lot of 5.56mm ammo in a lot of rifles with .223 chambers FOR DECADES and to date, no catastrophic failures reported.
And there has been no tremendous shortening of rifle life reported, either.
Very good, the 5.56 MVP comes with a medium fluted bull barrel that is threaded and an adjustable trigger. The bolt is not as tight as some would like because of the mechanism to pickup cartridges from an AR magazine.
They are fun rifles at a reasonable price.
Have fun and stay safe.
Jim
