Is installing an oversize hand on a S&W K-frame this easy?
- Thread starter Carmady
- Start date
This is very close to what we call a "drive by" thread, posting a link with little or no explanation, and no questions or subject for discussion.
Why do you think your S&W needs this work?? Explaining that would be a good start.
Revolvers are simple machines, and many things look easy to do. And they are, but simple things are also easy to screw up.
putting in an oversize hand MAY fix a problem, but first, only if you have correctly identified the problem, and second, since oversize parts need some kind of fitting (filing, stoning, etc.) its then up to you to do just enough work, and not too much.
This is one of the reasons we pay gunsmiths for doing the work. Not just the cost of the part and their time, but also for their experience.
If you fit a replacement part, (according to UTube video instructions) and get something wrong, you're out the cost of the part, and your time, and you'll have to start over. If you have a gunsmith do it, and they screw it up, they're generally obligated to eat the cost of their mistakes. You're paying to get the gun fixed. Not just for buying and installing a given part.
Ex: say a smith screws up fitting the hand, 3 times, they can't (ethically) charge you for 3 hands, because the additional costs was their fault. (plus if they do screw it up, you need to find a better smith..
)
You probably can do the work well enough, its not rocket surgery and not a lot of brain science. BUT, if you do, its all on you. And, if there's any question of a warranty involved, you just violated it.
Good Luck!
Why do you think your S&W needs this work?? Explaining that would be a good start.
Revolvers are simple machines, and many things look easy to do. And they are, but simple things are also easy to screw up.
putting in an oversize hand MAY fix a problem, but first, only if you have correctly identified the problem, and second, since oversize parts need some kind of fitting (filing, stoning, etc.) its then up to you to do just enough work, and not too much.
This is one of the reasons we pay gunsmiths for doing the work. Not just the cost of the part and their time, but also for their experience.
If you fit a replacement part, (according to UTube video instructions) and get something wrong, you're out the cost of the part, and your time, and you'll have to start over. If you have a gunsmith do it, and they screw it up, they're generally obligated to eat the cost of their mistakes. You're paying to get the gun fixed. Not just for buying and installing a given part.
Ex: say a smith screws up fitting the hand, 3 times, they can't (ethically) charge you for 3 hands, because the additional costs was their fault. (plus if they do screw it up, you need to find a better smith..
) You probably can do the work well enough, its not rocket surgery and not a lot of brain science. BUT, if you do, its all on you. And, if there's any question of a warranty involved, you just violated it.
Good Luck!
Thanks a lot for the detailed reply.
It's a 65-2, around 1981 near the last of the P&R versions.
I think it needs work because when hammer is slowly pulled back to fire SA the cylinder stop does not engage the lock notch before the "hammer click" on four charge holes. One one hole it's very close to simultaneous, and on the last hole it's barely before the SA click. It's not off by much.
I've shot it about 600 times and never noticed it spitting lead, and the holes line up like they should in DA, maybe due to the momentum of the cylinder.
I checked Brownell's and they have the S&W hand ("fits...65/65LS .357..."), and the S&W oversize hand ("fits K Frame, common parts, .38")
https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/action-parts/hand-parts/hands/hand-prod15379.aspx
https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/action-parts/hand-parts/hands/hand-oversize-prod15380.aspx
I suppose both may fit the 65-2, but don't know for sure. Assuming that they will, which would I need, the standard size or the oversize?
I'd guess the oversize hand is suitable when the ratchet is worn, the extra metal on the oversize hand compensating for the missing metal on the ratchet, but that's just a guess, and I don't know what to look for to determine if the ratchet is worn enough to need the oversize hand, so I've included a couple of pics of the ratchet. Would you suggest the standard or oversize hand? Thanks.
It's a 65-2, around 1981 near the last of the P&R versions.
I think it needs work because when hammer is slowly pulled back to fire SA the cylinder stop does not engage the lock notch before the "hammer click" on four charge holes. One one hole it's very close to simultaneous, and on the last hole it's barely before the SA click. It's not off by much.
I've shot it about 600 times and never noticed it spitting lead, and the holes line up like they should in DA, maybe due to the momentum of the cylinder.
I checked Brownell's and they have the S&W hand ("fits...65/65LS .357..."), and the S&W oversize hand ("fits K Frame, common parts, .38")
https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/action-parts/hand-parts/hands/hand-prod15379.aspx
https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/action-parts/hand-parts/hands/hand-oversize-prod15380.aspx
I suppose both may fit the 65-2, but don't know for sure. Assuming that they will, which would I need, the standard size or the oversize?
I'd guess the oversize hand is suitable when the ratchet is worn, the extra metal on the oversize hand compensating for the missing metal on the ratchet, but that's just a guess, and I don't know what to look for to determine if the ratchet is worn enough to need the oversize hand, so I've included a couple of pics of the ratchet. Would you suggest the standard or oversize hand? Thanks.
Attachments
I'm going to take it to the man up the road. He said he has a three month backlog, and I suppose that's because he knows what he's doing.
From 32:45 - 38:45 in this video convinced me to resist the temptation to try it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ujyLn3lHBc
From 32:45 - 38:45 in this video convinced me to resist the temptation to try it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ujyLn3lHBc
straightshooterjake
New member
You are making a good choice to let a professional work on your timing issue. It has become a common theme on the internet that revolver timing issues are a user serviceable issue, but I would strongly disagree with that view.
The fitting between the hand and the ratchets involves very small tolerances, and there are other issues like end shake that should also be checked on a revolver that is out of time. Overall, timing issues are an area where an experienced revolver smith really adds value. Your pinned and recessed model 65 is a great gun, and it is well worth the time to have it fixed properly.
The fitting between the hand and the ratchets involves very small tolerances, and there are other issues like end shake that should also be checked on a revolver that is out of time. Overall, timing issues are an area where an experienced revolver smith really adds value. Your pinned and recessed model 65 is a great gun, and it is well worth the time to have it fixed properly.
I watched the video, and it seems well done, if you are trying to sell un-needed parts.
To begin with, the guy tells you to induce "drag" on the cylinder, which is NOT the way it works when shooting normally, and then, because it doesn't fully lock up (again, under DRAG) says the hand is worn, and needs replacement with the oversize hand that they sell....
Did you get that???
Introduce an artificial condition (drag) that does not happen during normal operation, then when the gun doesn't work "right" tell you parts are worn and you need to buy replacements.
If your gun is accurate, and not spitting, locks up properly in normal use, it doesn't need fixing!!
To begin with, the guy tells you to induce "drag" on the cylinder, which is NOT the way it works when shooting normally, and then, because it doesn't fully lock up (again, under DRAG) says the hand is worn, and needs replacement with the oversize hand that they sell....
Did you get that???
Introduce an artificial condition (drag) that does not happen during normal operation, then when the gun doesn't work "right" tell you parts are worn and you need to buy replacements.
If your gun is accurate, and not spitting, locks up properly in normal use, it doesn't need fixing!!
Carmady,
I like to tinker, know how things work, find out what is broken and what is needed to fix it. Would you please follow up with a reply of what the problem was and how he repaired it?
Thanks.
(still waiting to hear from Pops and what was up with the trigger on his 686)
I like to tinker, know how things work, find out what is broken and what is needed to fix it. Would you please follow up with a reply of what the problem was and how he repaired it?
Thanks.
(still waiting to hear from Pops and what was up with the trigger on his 686)
mudlark,
Sure, it'll be about three months from now.
Here's another video that focuses on re-installing the hand spring, which looks a PITA (or character building exercise). Early on it shows how to properly position the spring in the trigger, and at 6:00 he installs the hand. It's my understanding that there's an early and later way the spring, trigger, and hand co-exist.
The video in the OP didn't mention anything about the hand spring, and the very detailed video in post #4 didn't even mess with it other than to say to leave it alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQnvGx8JRd0
Sure, it'll be about three months from now.
Here's another video that focuses on re-installing the hand spring, which looks a PITA (or character building exercise). Early on it shows how to properly position the spring in the trigger, and at 6:00 he installs the hand. It's my understanding that there's an early and later way the spring, trigger, and hand co-exist.
The video in the OP didn't mention anything about the hand spring, and the very detailed video in post #4 didn't even mess with it other than to say to leave it alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQnvGx8JRd0
I have a first year Ruger Security Six that the cylinder bolt didn't always drop in the slot if the trigger was pulled very slowly. So I just removed the bolt from the trigger group and broke the sharp edge on the bolt and it has worked perfectly ever since. I can't get it to not drop in the slot on the cylinder. And I bet thats all your smith does on your gun.
I wish I had seen thus thread before you dropped the gun off. My other GP-100s and second Security Six all have a slight radius on the bolt.
I wish I had seen thus thread before you dropped the gun off. My other GP-100s and second Security Six all have a slight radius on the bolt.