Is gun bluing a good business opportunity?

[BumbleBug]

I’ve noticed that a lot of gunsmiths outsource their bluing. This got me to thinking:

• Is bluing a dying art/business?
• Is bluing difficult to learn & do professionally?
• What equipment/set-up is needed (especially shop/safety considerations; investment$)?
• Would this be a good part-time business for a retired old guy like myself that likes guns?

TIA…

…bug

 

[semi_problomatic]

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=11044

Here's a link about bluing.

With all the new coatings and paintings that are more durable there might just be more options now. You can even go full camo with those prints you dip in water, or cerakote in any colors you want, and parkerizing which a lot of guns are coming in now. So it may not be cost-effective to just do blueing, or for local gunsmiths to have a bluing service.

 

[Doyle]

Doing a good bluing job is extremely labor intensive. You have to disassemble all the parts, prep the parts, blue them, cleanup from the bluing process, then reassemble. That labor costs big dollars. It just isn't worth the cost of rebluing an average gun considering that a new (or like new) replacement is probably going to be cheaper than the price of the blue job plus the amount you could receive from selling the old one as-is.

That leaves high dollar guns and guns with high sentimental value left in the pool of potential customers. What I'm getting at is that the potential market for a guy selling blueing services is relatively small.

 

[BumbleBug]

Thanks for the good responses.

I know there are quite a few alternatives to conventional bluing especially since SS has become very popular on guns. Hard anodizing is the way to go on black rifles. I wouldn't want to get into complete re-bluing because as pointed out, that is labor & dollars intensive & not cost effective.

I was thinking more in the ball park of re-barrels & a few associated parts. Just perusing various gunsmith's price lists, the charge to re-blue a barrel is about $125 to $150. One gunsmith also mentioned a delay because the guy he sent his bluing to had some type of problem. I don't know if outsourcing this is really common or am I only looking as some isolated cases. Like I said, I was thinking about it as a part-time thing, but perhaps unfeasible.

 

[PetahW]

.

Gun bluing is much more than dipping parts in a hot/chemical bath - which in itself can have local/municipal/state enviromental permits & concerns.

The pre-blue polish is where the art comes in - a lousy polishing job (no waviness or rounded edges and/or dished screw holes) is worse than a rusted gun.



.

 

[Dfariswheel]

About 95% of a good blue job is in the polishing of the metal before the gun goes into the bluing tank system.

Polishing is both an art and a skill that takes years to really develop and it's something you have to do constantly to maintain the skills.
This is why so many guns were botched up by local gunsmiths who only fired up the tanks once or twice a month.
They just didn't do enough polishing to keep the skills up which is why guns done by them have rounded off edges, dished out holes, ripples in the flats and along the barrel, and buffed out stamps.
To judge a good blue job, ignore how shiny it is and look UNDER the blue at the metal. Look for signs a ham-handed polisher has over-buffed it.

Professional polishers don't use shop motors and flexible muslin buffs.
They use very large diameter HARD felt buffs that are stacked to make buffs 8 to 10 inches or more in diameter and 6 to 8 inches or more wide. They use special contoured hard felt buffs for special areas like inside trigger guards.
They use professional large, very powerful motors in a special dust collecting hood vacuum system.

Most locals are getting out of bluing for a number of reasons:
1. Local and Federal environmental regulations on the chemicals.

2. The danger of working with hot caustic chemicals that cause extreme burns and lost eyes.
A single drop of water getting into the tank causes very violent steam explosions, that splatter the chemical everywhere, including on you.

3. The need to have the system in a special room. The caustic fumes will rust anything made of steel and will corrode brass and copper.
This includes water pipes and electrical fixtures.

4. The cost to set up and do the work, plus developing the skills just make it cheaper to have bluing done by a big commercial operation that devotes all their time to polishing and bluing.

5. The high danger of doing polishing on sharp or heavy gun parts. The large diameter buffs can snatch work out of your hand in a instant and throw them hard enough to embed a small part in a concrete wall.
Needless to say, the part can also embed itself into your body, and can easily cut fingers off or sever arteries.

The only way to really make it pay is to start up a big commercial operation like APW-Cogan, Ford's, or Glenrock, and get a reputation like they have so you can operate a successful trade shop doing it for small gunsmiths.
To make it pay, you have to be operating the polishing and bluing systems all day, every day, or it's not going to be more than a hobby that won't pay for the equipment and materials.

 

[guncrank]

Yes , you can make money at bluing, with a small time operation.
And yes you can use buff and polish guns with smaller buffs and wheels.
You will only make a small return and can get a bad reputation with sloppy work.
Like all things it is more a skill than the tools used.

Big wheels with large working surfaces are faster if you have a large operation.
Average charge to blue a average hunting gun is 200/350.00 retail
According to price lists of other shoos.
There is only two shops that I know of that has bluing tanks and the skill to use them in Louisville , KY
The rest farm it out I guess . And the one shop has a local guy that is buddy with the owner of that place.
I do my own polishing and bluing but I only have small buffers and 6/8" wheels.
If t is more needed to get to the degree of shine wanted then the charge is higher
In my area , no way that Joe Hunter will pay that when he can get a better applied finish for less money.

 

[jmr40]

Having a gun re-blued costs more than typical guns are worth in todays market. I don't see enough demand to justify the expense of starting up a business. This is why most gunsmiths send this work out to a handful of larger operations. A few shops specializing in bluing can probably get enough work to make a profit. A small 1 man operation probably wouldn't get very much business.

 

[James K]

If the market can stand the cost, bluing can be a profitable business. But you need to be able to do good work quickly, and hire only others who can do the same. And it is a good idea to have at least one person to do nothing but dis- and re-assembly. (Guess who did that for a long time and learned a lot about guns in the process.)

The others are right; polishing is the whole thing. One mistake many bluing shops make is to try to achieve the proverbial "mirror finish", which some folks like but which no factory (except maybe Weatherby) ever attempted, and which screams "reblue" to everyone and ruins collector value.

Jim

 

[zukiphile]

Is bluing a dy[e]ing art/business?

Nearly pun-tastic.

 

[Old Stony]

While it is a lot of work and needs some expertise in the polishing part, bluing is not brain science. A person could do it as a part time hobby thing and make some money on the side, if he were willing to apply himself. For maybe 500/1,000 bucks you could have everything you would need with a little scrounging, Most shops farm it out as they don't want to set up and deal with the whole process and getting employees that could do it is tough. Just doing bead blast blues for guys can bring in pretty good money and you sidestep the polishing problems. A lot of hunters can be sold a matte finish bead blast blue as they are less reflective and hold oil on the surface better.
You will have to be willing to do a lot of disassembly and reassembly though and that can be tedious and time consuming.

 

[James K]

"You will have to be willing to do a lot of disassembly and reassembly though and that can be tedious and time consuming."

Naah!!

The biggest problem, already mentioned, is complying with all the rules and regulations involving hazmat and occupational safety. Not usually applicable unless you employ other people, but compliance is costly and a PITA. I think that is the largest single factor that drives people out of the bluing business.

Jim

 

[Old Stony]

If you were located in one of the pain in the rear states like Ca., Ma, etc...that might be true. In Texas I don't really think it would be that much of a problem, unless you are working in a metropolitan area.
For instance, the local gun shop here has an indoor range. I have been retired for some time now, but I was indirectly associated with the gun shop for some time until the untimely death of the owner. To help the family, I
arranged a lease to some new people to open the shop again.
During my association with this shop, I witnessed two inspections of the range and neither took 5 minutes. I know the ventilation system would not pass muster in a large city. If I were to open up a bluing operation there would not even be another inspection at the site.
Smaller Texas towns are still what I would consider as the real America.

 

[Dfariswheel]

Unmentioned so far are the expense of all the licenses and permits needed.

In order to blue guns you are required to have a FFL Dealers license to do gunsmithing.
You'll need State business licenses, possibly city licenses, and other permits.
You'll have to be in an area zoned for business.

You'll need various types of insurance, like insurance if a gun is lost, stolen, burned in a fire, etc, and insurance if a customer gets hurt on your premises.
You'll need insurance and on-call legal help if/when some dissatisfied customer sues you.

The days when an American could just open up a small shop in his garage or basement and make some spare money are long gone.
Now every bureaucrat on a Federal, State, and local level are demanding you toe their line and pay their price and maybe they'll allow you to work.

 

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

If you are already in the gunsmithing business, then bluing guns can generate extra profit, after the setup has paid for itself. The setup itself, just to get off the ground, with the tanks, chemicals, and polishing equipment, will sit you back around $3 grand, which will take doing about 30-35 guns just to pay for it.

First, you'll need to learn how to polish metal, so it wont look like a sucked-on lollipop. Here, you can get hold of some cheap guns, your's, and maybe some relatives and friends, if you tell them you'll refinish them for free. Don't, however, take in anything expensive at first. The main thing is learning to polish, and there are some videos out on how to do this correctly, along with how to do caustic bluing. Once you learn this, then you can accept guns from customers.

The main problem is getting people to pay you what it is worth, as polishing a gun takes time to do it correctly, and you will have at least a half day labor in a gun, easily. This counts the time for disassembly and repairs, then polishing, bluing, and re-assembly. It does not count refinishing wood, which is another time consuming job in itself.

A small shop should have enough guns coming in to at least light up the tanks twice a week. Any less than that, and it will take a while to start generating a profit.

 

[guncrank]

Taxes, FFL, insurance, fees are part of doing buisness.
Time is money, only you OP can figure out if it is worth it.
If you are in the business or want to learn go for it.
Yes you can drop big money or go cheap in the set up.

All it can say is that you don't need to be big to make money

 

[4V50 Gary]

Environmental regulations. You can't (and shouldn't) just dump your bluing salts (without first neutralizing them).

Anyhow, heating the tanks cost money. You have to wet a certain day aside in a month or week to make it cost effective. It's not worth heating the tanks for just one gun. Sure delivery/return to the customer is faster, but it's not as efficient time was either. So, when you do a bluing job, you should do a big batch to get the most out of your energy use and your time. This way you minimize expenses and increase your profits.

 

[BumbleBug]

Thanks!

First off, I want to thank everyone for their responses. As usual, there are a ton of things I hadn't thought about.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/...aspx?lid=11044

Here's a link about bluing.

Thanks, great article. Brownell makes it sound easy. Of course they are selling all the needed equipment & chemicals!

... A person could do it as a part time hobby thing and make some money on the side, if he were willing to apply himself. For maybe 500/1,000 bucks you could have everything you would need with a little scrounging ... Just doing bead blast blues for guys can bring in pretty good money and you sidestep the polishing problems. A lot of hunters can be sold a matte finish bead blast blue as they are less reflective and hold oil on the surface better.

…In Texas I don't really think it would be that much of a problem, unless you are working in a metropolitan area.

This was kind of my thinking & I'm living in a Texas rural area. I thought that if things went well I could bead-blast SS barrels & get an oven & do some of the spray finishes. I would never plan to be the guy you'd bring your heirloom shotgun to for a $500 re-blue job!! Most guys in my gun club buy discount barrels & get them installed by local/ garage gunsmiths & just need them blued.

...Unmentioned so far are the expense of all the licenses and permits needed....

Wow, really didn't think about that! I'm really a safety kind a guy (goggles,mask,earmuffs to mow grass) & I was really thinking about setting up a super safe working environment/equipment. Would I really need an FFL? Thanks, you really got me interested. I'm going to look into just what is needed to do this, even if to just satisfy my curiosity.

Thanks again!

...bug

 

[Dfariswheel]

If you're "in the business" or keep someone's gun overnight, you're required to have an FFL for gunsmithing, and log guns in and out in a permanent bound book.

 

[Huffmanite]

Bumblebee, a gent I've shot with at range we are members will retire within a year. He is intent on getting into the gun blueing business when he retires. He's had very positive feedbacks from gunsmiths and others who need someone to do gun blueing. This is someone in the Houston, Tx area.