Is Atlas Shrugging???

[brianidaho]

I'm a big Ayn Rand fan, and re-read Atlas Shrugged every couple of years; happen to be doing so now. It is a difficult book to sum up in a few words for those here who have not read it, but I'll take a stab at it. Essentially the novel demonstrates that mankinds means of survival is through rational thought and resulting action, and that a small portion of the population (the men of the mind, ie producers, inventors, businessmen, etc) are responsible for all progress and ultimatly survival of mankind. It goes on to show how governments oriented towards socialism (OK, liberalism to be fasionable) persecutes these indiviuals. The plot of the novel involves the "men of the mind" going on strike in response to the growing socialist tyrnary of their government, and the resulting collapse of society. OK, this is a poor summary, give me a break it's a thousand page novel.

Anyway, I see a lot of parallels with the novel with events of the last few years. The federal government attacks Bill Gates (Hank Reardan??), not because he has attacked anyone, or broken a specific law, but because he is successful. After years of investigations, the best they could come up with was some supposed violations of "antitrust" laws, in themselves some of the most itellectually obscene legislation ever past. What's the message for business owners here? Don't be too good at what you do (unfair to those that are inferior after all) or the government will come down on you, break up your business, throw you in jail...

California is an all too apparent example of the effects of socialism running its ugly course. The "strike" seems to be happening, I work with several engineers that have escaped CA for North Idaho (OK, so I like to think of the area as Galts Gulch), many businesses are pulling up stakes and moving as well. The power situation has parallels as well. The power companies in CA have been clamoring to build additional generating capacity for 20 years, only to be stopped by the so-called environmentalists and government restrictions. The government dictates that the power companies must sell power at a price lower than what they pay for it. Now, as the private companies start to collapse, the government is clammoring to nationalize power production. Shades of Directive 10-289. I respect GW for telling CA that this is their problem, and not dragging the rest of the country down as well.

One of the issues discussed in the novel was that the only justification for physical force was in response to physical force. The ultimate arguement that a government has against individuals is the initation of force. A consideration of those in power was to be able to readly move troops to areas of the country where there was resistance to the latest government seizures. I see parallels in this and with "Project X" to the expansion of gun control laws, aimed at making the citizens defensless against the government, and in the dramatic increase in law enforcement powers, in terms of no-knock raids and asset seizures. (moderators, please consider this as justification to keep the thread alive ).

Anyone here have any comments or insight?

Bri

 

[444]

I have mentioned this topic several times. If you read the book, take into account when it was written, you will be astonished at Ayn Rand's insight into the human mind. I definitely agree that the story is playing itself out. I see parallels all the time. The next step will be for the government to take the power plants by force and force the operators to run it at a loss. When the power companies agree to play ball with the government, that will allow the government to put leverage on the companies supplying power to the power company (coal, natural gas....). Crisis's like this are the perfect way for the government to bring everyone into the clique.

 

[johnr]

I'm too short on time to expand on the subject or link it, but on some boards a strong parallel is being made between Atlas Shrugged & the power "crisis" in Kali....

 

[brianidaho]

johnr, if you have time to post those links sometime, I'd appreciate it. It's really kind of off topic for TFL, but I see a lot of people here that respect individual rights and responsibilities that I though I'd try to feel things out. Moderators, thanks for your tolerance, please move to legal and policital if you feel it would be appropriate.

Bri

 

[Schmit]

> that a small portion of the population (the men of the mind, ie producers, inventors, businessmen, etc) are responsible for all progress <

Forgot by whom...

"A reasonable man trys to adapt himself to the world.
A unreasonble man trys to adapt the world to himself.

Therefore, all progress is dependent on the unreasonable man.'

P.S. Have just started Atlas Shrugged.

 

[brianidaho]

Schmidt, I've read that quote before, but sure can't remember where. Might be a Heinlien comment, I thought it was from "The notebooks of Lazarus Long" in Time Enough for Love, but don't see it there...this old age thing is getting to be a pain.

You're in for a treat with Atlas Shrugged; a friend introduced it to me when we were in college together. That was not a nice thing to do when we were in the junior year of an engineering program-I got hooked on the book and read it in a week, at the expense of grades (and sleep). It was quite an experience to read a novel that puts into words so many of the things I believe in.

Let us know your reaction to it.

Bri

 

[RikWriter]

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."---George Bernard Shaw.

I used to have it as my email signature.

 

[Justin]

I don't know about 'Atlas Shrugged' I haven't read it yet.
However, a couple of years ago I re-read 'Fahrenheit 451' and by the end of the book I found myself being rather creeped out at the number of parallels I saw in Bradybury's world and in the real world.

 

[Jeff Thomas]

Ironically, re: George Bernard Shaw ... interesting to note that he was quite a leftist in his own day. Per a web site devoted to the author:

His interests lay in politics, Socialism, Communism, & humanist issues.

Perhaps the 'unreasonable man' he was thinking of was Marx or Lenin? A pity, because the sentiment is accurate IMHO.

These days, it does rather feel like we are witnessing the fruition not only of 'Atlas Shrugged', but also '1984' and other such works.

And, as far as what to do, we must continue to learn, encourage people to value individual liberty and personal responsibility, raise our children well, and ... buy guns and ammunition from time to time. Consider it a 'hedge'.

Regards from AZ

 

[johnr]

brianidaho, I will attempt to do that even as I write this... opening a new browser....
#19, here:

http://206.112.97.70/forum/a3a7143310386.htm

Well. H!ll-- I know this subject has appeared a lot, but a general search of FR, and a narrower search using http://www.google.com fails to reveal it!

Someone, somewhere made the comment, "is Atlas shrugging yet?"

I know I've seen a number of comments-- it's out there, somewhere in the ether....

 

[Hawkman]

Rant mode on...

Not bragging, just fact - I am in the top one percent of income earners who (collectively) earn 17% of all the income earned in the country and (collectively) pay 33% of all income tax collected by the government.

I am so po'ed about being characterized as "greedy" and "fortunate" for something I have worked my rear end off to achieve all my adult life that I have been thinking seriously about the "shrug". I wish I could form a union of the top 5% of the income earners (who collectively pay 50% of the income taxes in the US) in the country and call a one month strike - no work, no pay = no tax receipts by the government. 1/12th of 1/2 = 1/24 of total annual tax receipts lost. Bet the congresscritters would wake up.

Rant off.

 

[Zeebrahed]

Atlas Shrugged. Tremendous book.

Many parallel ideas between this book and modern day can be found. I am reading 1984 for the first time, can't believe I missed it, and there also is a chillingly accurate representation of the world Orwell warned us of, but may already be here.

 

[RON in PA]

We are fixated on liberals, socialists and communists. Sixty years ago we would have ranted about fascists and nazis. Before then it would have been monarchists. What it boils down to is, do you believe that one is responsible for one's actions and how much do you want government to be your nanny. Governments are like people who are control freaks, they want more and more power for power's sake. And they will claim that they are doing it for your own good. Unfortunately too many like their dependency. It takes a Hitler, Stalin and Mao(could have named some Roman emperors too) to remind us of the evil that unrestrained,big government can do.

 

[Futo Inu]

I've GOT to read that book

One comment about the Calif. situation. On Washington Week on PBS Friday (& Sun), it was finally explained how this happened: Basically, the Calif. legislature passed laws whose aim was to open up the markets for electricity, increasing competition, but ONLY at the distributor level, not the retail level. So, now, the distributors can (by law) sell the elec. at market price at that level, but the retailers are still forced by law to sell at a fixed price (to protect the public from being "gouged" presumably). Everything was fine until the market price at distrib. level exceeded the ceiling on fixed price at retail level last summer. So, .....

My question to that moron Gray Davis is, WHY are you asking the federal government for help, when the obvious solution is to hold an emergency sessions of the state legislature and pass a bill that either raises the fixed price at the consumer level, or free marketizes that level altogether. Can anyone say DUH?

 

[MikeWrite]

Brian~

I agree that most of Ayn Rand's predictions about the future of America, in both "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead", have been astonishingly accurate. Her novella "Anthem" provides the logical endpoint of the current direction of this country and the world, under the socialist ideal. I've read most of her non-fiction work, as well, and her analysis there is similarly prophetic.

You can actually pick apart "Atlas" event-by-event and almost character-by-character to find a parallel in our current society. You mention Bill Gates as the Hank Rearden of our world, and I agree. As the heroes fly over New York at the end of the novel, they see the lights going out, which of course is a parallel to the current situation in California. Then there's the scientist who thinks the government should control scientific research. We've got those a-plenty these days (Human Genome Project, anyone?). There's the opportunistic, freedom-thieving, poll-listening "head of state", Mr. Thompson. I don't need to point out HIS real-life counterpart, eh? There's the Wet Nurse, the government representative who goes to Rearden's steel plant and tells him how to run it. OSHA, anyone? The list goes on and on, though I'll refrain here from commenting on Rand's analysis of modern art and its relation to freedom and individualism!

Mandatory shooting-related "Atlas Shrugged" commentary: on the good side, there's Rearden, who carries a revolver in his pocket on the advice of the local police (!!). There's Francisco D'anconia, who in one pivotal scene saves Rearden's life by shooting a gang of drunken rioters (that scene had some parallels to the Seattle WTO "protests," I thought). And of course there is Ragnar Danneskjold, the pirate who raids or destroys the looting government's ships headed for the European People's States. Molon Labe, indeed!

Comparisons with Orwell's "1984" aren't totally valid. Orwell was actually a socialist, himself, and none of his books are defenses of individualism -- including the misunderstood "Animal Farm." Rand made the excellent point that, since collectivism in any form is opposed to human nature, no collectivist society can ever prosper or become technologically advance without stealing from individualistic societies. This would seem to mitigate against the idea of a technologically-superior totalitarian state, such as that in "1984.".

This idea was borne out in the latter half of the 20th century. China, North Korea, and a bunch of lesser communist and socialist nations had to steal American technology to build adequate military weapons. China, North Korea, and India, to name just a few, have been unable to produce sufficient food and other necessities for their populations, while Americans produce an abundance of such things. Israel, a semi-collectivist nation, spies on us to learn how to build weapons. Russia can barely maintain a subsistence economy because they cling to the shattered remnants of a collectivist ideology while spouting free-market sound bites to appease the US. Various socialist European countries run to the US for innumerable forms of economic aid.

The list goes on, but the trend is obvious: countries prosper and advance in direct relation to their degree of individual freedom. Should our nation give up its individual freedom, as it seems to be doing incrementally in all areas, we too are doomed to follow the same path. But if and when the US goes under, there will be no one left to save the world from utter choas and starvation.

The right to gun ownership is no more or less a part of individual freedom than economic rights. A consistent defender of freedom and individualism supports both, and Ayn Rand was exactly that. But remember, too, that Rand's philosophy was that "revolution begins in men's minds, not in the streets." Our weapons will be of no use against the forces of tyranny if we lack the philosophical foundations that justify their ownership and, heaven forbid, their use.

Mike

 

[Don Gwinn]

This morning on the Today Show, when the weatherman went out to do mindless chatter with a crowd, an older, very serious-looking gentleman was holding a large sign. Usually these have hometowns or happy birthday wishes on them. His said:
"You never had to take them seriously, Dagny."

What, if anything, might be the purpose of holding that sign on the Today show? Just wondering.

Maybe it's a secret message to the "Galt Club" somewhere in Idaho, meaning "Phase Four is complete" or something similar?

 

[brianidaho]

http://www.atlas-shrugged-the-movie.com/

Good link, I hadn't realized there was going to be a movie version of AS.

Bri

 

[scud]

No kidding Hawkman, There is a endless stream of would be Robin Hoods attempting to target the rich and are encouraged by the .gov to think after that manner, unless the rich is a left wing politician that is. The state doesn't want anyone out there with enough money to be a potential problem.

 

[Ken Cook]

Quote;
A reasonable man adapts himself to the world around him. An unreasonable man adapts the world to him. Therefore all progress is dependant upon the unreasonable man.

That is an interesting, but totally irrelevant statement.
The Terms "Reasonable" and "Unreasonable" are judgement terms applied by others, based upon Null Set Value Systems*.

The "reasonable man" acomplishes nothing. To be "reasonable" he must be tractable, he must be willing to subjugate his knowledge and his mind to others. Otherwise, he is INtractable,and therefore he is UNreasonable.

Better by far to say,
"The reasoning man adapts the world around him to suit his needs and wants. The unreasoning man lives only by stealing or begging the fruits of the labor of the reasoning. He is incapable of obtaining them by any other means."
(K. Cook, 1961-20??)

*Null Set Value System
A means of "dealing" with reality by any system other than Logic and Reason.