Is a .454 RB enough for deer?

[deerslayer303]

I'm not sure if this will go well here instead of the hunt. But is a .454 RB enough for deer at close range. Say 40 yards or less. Bow hunting range. Will it do enough damage to leave a good blood trail? We will have a couple short range stands this coming season, and it will be awefully hard not to skin the Remington if one is close enough.

 

[Trum4n1208]

I've heard the Colt Walker could drop a deer, but there was no information about the powder charge or the ranges involved. Someone with more experience can give you more information,but I'd be willing to bet that a full charge at a short distance could do the job. Not will, but could.

 

[eastbank]

you shoot that .454 RB thru both lungs it will kill the deer, deader than a door nail. i have killed deer with a .440 RB thru the lungs, as a matter of fact it killed them very quickly. eastbank.

 

[deerslayer303]

Thanks guys for the replies, I was just thinking that my revolver may not be able to push that ball fast enough to do it ethically. But I certainly will try it.

 

[rodwhaincamo]

Check these videos out (one of six):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WNYGs2_UZw

He also has one in which he shoots a Colt Army with various projectiles and standard Goex.

If you use Swiss, Olde Eynsford by Goex, or Triple 7 you can achieve some fairly powerful loads. If you use most any other powder you'll be pushing it to get 300 ft/lbs with it. But then a patched ball from a rifle kills deer just fine and often giving a complete passthrough at 100 yds or so, and it has about 300-400 ft/lbs at that point.

I'd prefer a bullet for hunting though, and one with a wide meplat. It's why I had this made:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-195C-D.png

Note that at 195 grns it's only as long as a ball (.460") and has a very wide meplat. You can still get a full charge of powder behind it, and using Mr. Beliveau's testing in the ROA and using Triple 7 I'd imagine I can easily get 500 ft/lbs with it. But I found my accurate load is 35 grns in my Ruger and 30 grns in my Pietta Remington '58. I use 3F Triple 7 or Olde Eynsford powders and they both hit the same POI with the same favored charge and give the same size groups.

The Pietta frame had to be modified to load these bullets though.

The Walker was designed to kill a horse at 100 yds. It will certainly kill a deer at close range with that small rifle charge.

There's a fellow who hog hunts with his Walker and uses 2F Triple 7 with a ball. His friends, including Kaido, use Kaido's bullets (modified Lee 255 grn .45 Colt bullets). The Walker fellow claims a greater wound by the ball within 25 yds.

 

[maillemaker]

The Walker was designed to kill a horse at 100 yds.

I have yet to find a supporting citation for this, despite reading all the surviving correspondence between Walker and Colt and several other relevant documents.

I believe this myth started from the fact that these kinds of pistols were known as "horse pistols", which meant they were meant to be carried on a horse using saddle holsters. The name "horse pistol" is no more indicative of the intended target than the name "belt pistol" or "pocket pistol" is.

Having read the correspondence, it's my opinion that Colt's intention was simply to produce a cavalry arm on par in performance with the existing musket cavalry arm it was to replace.

There is, however, a record of a Mexican soldier being shot off of a horse at 100 yards. And I do not doubt this. I can hit a man-sized target off-hand with a single hand with my Uberti Walker at 110 yards.

That said, I have no doubt that the Walker, with it's maximum load of 60 grains, is quite capable of killing a deer, or a horse. It's muzzle energy was not matched by another handgun until the advent of the .357 magnum. You can easily approach 500 ft-lbs of energy.

Steve

 

[rodwhaincamo]

Looking at sources seemingly reliable most do not mention the design for use against horses as well, though I did find one so far.

http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2010/06/revolver-walker-colt-colt-dragoon.html

I guess I've accepted it as such because it's been said all too often.

 

[hartcreek]

Check your states hunting regulations first. Some states have energy requirements and ball size requirements. Some like my silly state just publish statements that blackpowder revolvers may be used for hunting of small game and forest grouse and completely forget that walkers and dragoons ever existed.

 

[Snyper]

It wouldn't be legal here, and I don't think I'd use it if it were

Too much risk of killing the deer, but not quickly enough to find it, since I'm doubting you'll get a blood trail

 

[Idaho Spud]

Doesn't look to be legal in Idaho. Yesterday, out of curiosity, I loaded 40 gr. equivalent Pyrodex (27.5 weighed) with Speer round balls (.457-in., 143.3 gr.)and CCI #11's and shot six thru my chronograph. Six shot avg. was 1060 fps which yields @357 ft/lb energy. About 38+p or low 9mm figures. Of course the bullet makes a 45 cal hole going in, so not exactly apples/apples in actual killing effectiveness. I'd get close. I know one thing, I would NOT want to be on the receiving end.

 

[BirchOrr]

I live in Michigan and am here to tell you I have taken many deer with a Colt Walker. In fact, I took two doe's at the same time with one. A group of six came in at around 50 yards away. I pulled my pistol, aimed and dropped the first one. The rest stood around wondering what happened so I cocked it again and dropped the second one before the remaining four ran off. I have also taken many a deer in a standing corn field with a black powder pistol. up close and personal! I now prefer my ROA.

I also know that Steve is hung up on the fact that there is no documentation proving that the Colt Walker was designed for killing horses. At the same time he loves them and shoots them regularly. It is my personal belief documentation or not, the Walker was indeed designed to kill horses. I believe Walker wanted a pistol to shoot the horses out from underneath the Indians. If you get them on the ground, they are not riding all around you slinging arrows at you. Why on earth would Walker want such a powerful pistol simply to shoot Indians and not horses?

I am also here to tell you, that I can shoot a 6 inch group at a hundred yards with a Colt Walker. I have done it many times, using a rest of course.

To answer the question, is a .454 ball big enough to kill a deer? Absolutely.

Just my 2 cents,

Birch

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

In regards to you Shawn. Best to have all 6 loaded and ready to light up.

Honestly that 58 Remington of yours throws a pretty big ball sir and no doubt makes a wide wound channel. At close range and spot on. I don't see much tracking involved. But as we both already know anything is possible when a big game animal is wounded.

 

[4V50 Gary]

Good hunting stories BirchOrr.

BTW, deerslayer303, shot placement is everything.

 

[rodwhaincamo]

Using a .45 cal pistol at 25 yds is no different than using a .45 cal rifle at 100 yds. It's done often enough and typically gives complete passthroughs. If that doesn't leave a blood trail then you aimed too high... But then most seem to claim a pileup in short order.

 

[Deja vu]

Doesn't look to be legal in Idaho. Yesterday, out of curiosity, I loaded 40 gr. equivalent Pyrodex (27.5 weighed) with Speer round balls (.457-in., 143.3 gr.)and CCI #11's and shot six thru my chronograph. Six shot avg. was 1060 fps which yields @357 ft/lb energy. About 38+p or low 9mm figures. Of course the bullet makes a 45 cal hole going in, so not exactly apples/apples in actual killing effectiveness. I'd get close. I know one thing, I would NOT want to be on the receiving end.

where did you find that information about not being legal in Idaho. I live here in Idaho and I have always though that during general hunting season that any firearm (even black powder) can be used so long as its not a rimfire that does not weigh more than 16 LBS. I dont think there is any energy requirement.

 

[Idaho Spud]

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/rules/?getPage=299 - it says muzzleloading rifle or musket.

edit: OK, I see you mean the general season. I was thinking of the ML season. You may be right. By all means use your pistol.

 

[hartcreek]

Idaho Spud

Load the Walker correctly not no 40 grains use 50 and 60 grains and then chronograph it.

Yes you would have to use it for modern season or for grouse, yotes, cougar, bobcats, bear....

 

[Idaho Spud]

Mine were shot in a ROA. Didn't realize the OP meant a Walker specifically. I guess 20 more grains of powder would make the load a little zippier. Any idea what velocity that might be?

 

[eastbank]

i shot a doe standing facing me at about 50 yards with a tc hawkin flint lock in .45 cal with a .440 prd. i hit her high on the white spot center chest, at the shot she wheeled around and went into a death roll flopping and kicking as she went down for good. when i was about to gut her i inserted my knife point at the rear of her utter and hit the ball with the knife point, the ball had just about gone clear thru her lenth wise and was expanded to .47 calibier. while i do like a heavier ball and calibier the .440 and .454 rb,s will kill. eastbank.

 

[spacecoast]

I also know that Steve is hung up on the fact that there is no documentation proving that the Colt Walker was designed for killing horses. At the same time he loves them and shoots them regularly.

How many horses have you shot, Steve?

Sorry, couldn't resist.