Iraq-Iran...your thoughts?

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tj_mlnr

New member
Iraq - Iran

Which country poses the greater threat?

Then why are we in the OTHER country?

The war in Iraq has severly restricted us in dealing with countries that are far more dangerous. It has overstretched our military, our budget, and the will of the people to stand behind a fight for the right cause. Since Iraq, any reason given to justify military action will now be viewed with suspicion by the public, and we will sooner appease and retreat than engage in another war - no matter how just.

And Iran knows this.

E.g.: When intelligence sources believed that President Bush was about to take military action against Iran, they "all of a sudden" found that Iran had stopped her nuclear weapons program in 2003 (??). This removed the threat, and thus the justification for military action, leaving the President unable to act.

A nuclear Iran is NOT an option. How do we stop them now?

Your thoughts?
 
S

SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI

New member
We have significant air power in the two countries neighboring Iran. We have naval air power in the gulf. We have Diego Garcia. If action becomes necessary we will be able to respond in a forceful manner.
 
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S832

New member
Let the whole middle east be turned to glass, I really don't understand why we are even there.

Its not our job to fight on behalf of Israel.
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
IMHO only... I think the action that STOLE land from ancient nations to make this freakin' un-nation, isreal, was a big mistake. The place did not exist until after WWII and their populace did not fight for it.
On to more current affairs. I feel that Isreal going to war with Iran will involve the USA. If nothing else we will have to resupply their weapons needs...
Brent
 
C

Chui

New member
Read the well-researched articles here:

www.globalresearch.ca

NEITHER were a threat and NEITHER are a threat.

Also read The Grand Chessboard by Zbigniew Brzezinski if you wish to know about the 'New' "Great Game" for Eurasia which the USA appears to have lost.

Attacking Iran will finish you and I off as a viable nation. Iran is actually a member of the SCO and as such has military agreements with Russia & China. The war is over oil and gas pipeline routes as well as deconstructing both Russia and China. [See Brzezinski for details]. Russia just signed an agreement to purchase all of Turkmenistan's oil at market price. Look it all up for details.
 
U

Unregistered

Moderator
IMHO only... I think the action that STOLE land from ancient nations to make this freakin' un-nation, isreal, was a big mistake. The place did not exist until after WWII and their populace did not fight for it.
Click to expand...

Never studied mid-east history i take it?
 
C

Chui

New member
Actually, I think he has... just because they claim that "God" 'promised' them the land doesn't make it so.

Look up the Egyptian's record of the events - it's documented. Akhenaton was pharoah at the time. No mention of them by name but there was mention of the Hyksos and Habiri who were desert bandits who invaded Egypt.
 
U

Unregistered

Moderator
The Jews were living in Israel before Allah was even invented.
And the Jews did fight after WWII for their independence.
Anti-semitism is in vogue, but there is no reason to deny history because of it.
 
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Swampghost

New member
Einstien pushed for a 'negotiable treaty with the Arabs' back in the '30's.

A lot can happen when you draw a line in the sand.

Just in case anybody missed it 9/11 was meant to be a substantial blow to this country and has probably exceeded our enemy's expectations.

They knew that we would demand a response (the Iraqi war), an economical drain. Follow that with our internal security at ports, airports, etc. (more financial drain). Our turn on other immigrants and border patrols (more drain). Then raise oil prices.

They won bigtime! A few hundred thousand $ to cost us billions a year.
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
http://www.answers.com/topic/israel

A country of southwest Asia on the eastern Mediterranean Sea. It was established in 1948 following the British withdrawal from Palestine, which had been divided by recommendation of the United Nations into Jewish and Arab states. Discord with neighboring Arab countries that had rejected the UN partition led to numerous wars, notably in 1948–1949, 1956–1957, 1967, and 1973. In the Six-Day War of 1967 Israel occupied the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, Jerusalem's Old City, the Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula. The Golan Heights and Jerusalem were later annexed, and the Sinai was returned to Egypt in 1982. A 1993 Israeli-Palestinian accord granted limited Palestinian autonomy in the Gaza Strip, and a similar accord calling for Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank was signed in 1994. Jerusalem is the capital and Tel Aviv–Yafo the largest city. Population: 6,430,000.

This kinda says that the NATION of isreal is not so ancient... And that they even over stepped their boundaries like Sadam did to Kuwait only on more than one front...
Brent
 
S

S832

New member
It would be one thing if Israel was interested in actually making peace, they aren't.

So let the crazies on both sides kill each other, its not our problem.
 
C

Chui

New member
You're correct that the leaders aren't interested in peace; same with some of the hardcore Zionist groups. But there are many people there who do.

I refuse to "throw out the baby with the bath water."

It could be argued by an outsider that the Americans are warmongerers and enjoy destroying nations and consuming energy. That's not everybody, though.
 
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gretske

Moderator
And that they even over stepped their boundaries like Sadam did to Kuwait only on more than one front...
Click to expand...
Except that Kuwait did not attack Iraq first.

What is going on with this thread? Is it for the history challenged?
 
U

Unregistered

Moderator
This kinda says that the NATION of isreal is not so ancient... And that they even over stepped their boundaries like Sadam did to Kuwait only on more than one front...
Click to expand...

I know you found a website that apparently thinks history started in 1948. Have you ever heard of King David? Or the invasion of Israel and capture of Jerusalem by Arabs under Saladin? To claim that Israel is "no so ancient" is just not true.


And that they even over stepped their boundaries like Sadam did to Kuwait only on more than one front...
Click to expand...


Kuwait's invasion by Iraq was unprovoked. Do you consider Israeli retalliations against the Palestinians to be unprovoked?


What is going on with this thread? Is it for the history challenged?
Click to expand...

I think too many people here went to public skools...
 
K

Keltyke

Moderator
I'm a little tired of the US being asked, yes ASKED, to be the police for the world, then getting spit on for doing it. Unfortunately, we have treaties with some of these countries that state we will come to their aid if needed, and there you have Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf. As a member of the UN, we're also bound by their "mutual aid" treaties.

In the middle East, these people have been fighting each other for thousands of years. They HATE each other. You must remember the caste system in India. Ghandi and Nehru. The big problem there was Nehru's people were low caste scum. You've heard of the "untouchables", and I don't mean the TV show. These people will go to war over a rock. Everyone wants their "god-granted" space. Trouble is - no one remembers who was where and when originally.

We'll respond with just enough force to make it look like we're really trying because we ain't gonna do ANYTHING that will jeopardize our oil supply. American soldiers will die for nothing because when it's all over, nothing will really be changed. When we left Vietnam, North Vietnam took over. I'm very surprised there are still two Koreas. When we leave the Middle East, if we ever do, it will go back to what it's been before. <sigh> I think "isolationist" President Calvin Coolidge had the right idea.

I think we should just throw up a big wall around the whole area, let them kill each other off, then step in and take over. Either that, or be the REAL prick ofthe world and simply wipe everyone out. "Barzini is dead. So is Philip Tattaglia, Strachi, Cuneo - Moe Greene...today, I settled all the family business..."
 
K

Kreyzhorse

New member
I don't know which country is the biggest threat. Iraq is currently in zero position to be a threat to us but as Powell said, "if you break you, you bought it." We've bought it. If we leave, Iraq will certainly become a threat as anti-American forces would most likely fill the void.

As far as Iran, any conflict in the middle east would have dire reprecussions on the world (western) economy. Oil prices would skyrocket and I think the world finally came to grips that high oil prices hurt everyone.

I don't look for a military action by anyone unless Iran forces someone's hand.

Today I read that the US is actually considering sending a low level dipolmatic envoy to discuss the situation with Iran. I know talk is cheap, but the Bush admin is finally speaking with our enemies rather than ignoring them. Not sure that it will help, but with Israelis’ current purchase of 90 f-16s and additional nuc subs, I hope that this will remain a war of words.
 
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gretske

Moderator
Not sure that it will help, but with Israelis’ current purchase of 90 f-16s and additional nuc subs, I hope that this will remain a war of words.
Click to expand...
You have hit on the gist of the matter. Despite what some would like to believe, including one presidential candidate, diplomacy alone will not work. The militarily impotent Europeans have proven this frequently in the past. Their latest failure with the Iranians being a case in point.

As Teddy Roosevelt said, “Speak softly and carry a big stick.” Trying to convince despots and fanatics that they are wrong is a useless exercise. Negotiation with a credible threat of annihilation may work, but only if the threat is believed. The problem with the Iranians is that the whack-o mullahs actually seek a nuclear war with Israel. They have said that they would gladly sacrifice a third of their 65 million people to wipe out the 7 million who live in Israel. “Good guy” diplomatic chit-chat won't work. The only thing that will work is to convince them that all 65 million are at risk.
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
Sorry to bust yer bubble but I was NEVER taught about the REAL nation of isreal in public school. It was after I was an adult that I learned of it. It is not hard to find the REAL history of the MODERN isreal when you simply google "isreal nationalized"... First fricken hit! Yes there is alot written about the Jewish folks but alot of that is in a fictitious book. I choose to believe factual writings. I don't live by the writings in Harry Potter books either.
Brent
 
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