I don't like to be ignorant, so help me here. Will someone explain the internal lock on the S&W. What do they do? How do they work? What are the problems with them? I have no experience with them, but I am considering buying a 638 for pocket carry. I would like to know beforehand. Thanks.
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Internal Lock
- Thread starter KMAX
- Start date
American Eagle
New member
You lock the trigger by inserting a key into the tiny lock hole. That's how it works.
I think concerns about lock failures are vastly blown out of proportion. The number of documented cases is so tiny as to be almost statistically irrelevant.
You are a thousand times more likely to get a stove pipe in a semi-auto, or a magazine failure in a semi-automatic. And your revolver is probably a hundred times more likely to have any other failure....ie. timing issues, etc.
The lock is not a big deal. Most people that hate them do so for cosmetic reasons, or because they are traditionalists.
I think concerns about lock failures are vastly blown out of proportion. The number of documented cases is so tiny as to be almost statistically irrelevant.
You are a thousand times more likely to get a stove pipe in a semi-auto, or a magazine failure in a semi-automatic. And your revolver is probably a hundred times more likely to have any other failure....ie. timing issues, etc.
The lock is not a big deal. Most people that hate them do so for cosmetic reasons, or because they are traditionalists.
Also being discussed (not a duplicate thread, as the premise is more a statement of the OP's dislike of the locks) but I hope the link helps.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463697
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463697
The feature allows an owner to use a key to lock the gun to prevent unauthorized persons (kids, et. Al.), to be able to fire the gun, even if it is loaded. There have been some reported problems with them engaging without turning the key and subsequently making the gun instantly and unintended inoperable.I don't like to be ignorant, so help me here. Will someone explain the internal lock on the S&W. What do they do? How do they work? What are the problems with them? I have no experience with them, but I am considering buying a 638 for pocket carry. I would like to know beforehand. Thanks.
Many gun enthusiasts (including myself), would rather buy an older gun that does not have a lock for aesthetic purposes inasmuch as we see the lock as un-needed and superfluous addition. Nevertheless, I have one gun with a lock, a Taurus 85 that has a more unobtrusive lock in that it is in the hammer underneath the spur, where it is not as obvious as the S&W location in the side of the frame. I have never engaged the lock and only have a general idea where I put the key.
Despite the fact that some shooters will say that the lock is not a problem, I doubt that many of those people would choose a gun with a lock if they had the option between two exactly the same models one with, one without.
The lock consists of a small hole in the frame just above the thumbpiece. By inserting a special key (it looks quite like a skate key) into the hole and turning it, a small "flag" is raised between the hammer and frame on the left side. The "flag" has a small stud on it that engages a slot in the hammer. When raised, the "flag" prevents the hammer from moving thus locking the action.
The actual number of verifiable cases in which the lock has caused problems with the functioning of a revolver is small enough to be statistically insignificant. Of the few verified cases, problems seem to be more common with lightweigt revolvers firing magnum cartridges (ex. 360, 340, 329). I would venture to guess that the majority of the vitriol about the locks on various forums stems from aesthetics and politics more than practical concern.
The actual number of verifiable cases in which the lock has caused problems with the functioning of a revolver is small enough to be statistically insignificant. Of the few verified cases, problems seem to be more common with lightweigt revolvers firing magnum cartridges (ex. 360, 340, 329). I would venture to guess that the majority of the vitriol about the locks on various forums stems from aesthetics and politics more than practical concern.
The lock is not a big deal. Most people that hate them do so for cosmetic reasons, or because they are traditionalists.
__________________
I agree with American Eagle. I have a 686 with the lock and after over two yrs of firing many rounds I have not experienced any Problems. I have never locked the weapon
secret_agent_man
Moderator
The Lock is easily removed on a J frame, and can later be reinstalled. A video of the procedure was on youtube, probably still is. You don't have to be a brain surgeon.
Thanks.
Thanks for the info, guys. I have seen this on other guns, but have not seen the complaints about them. Apparently S&W has a more fanatical following when it comes to appearance, but thats okay. Just wasn't sure what the fuss was about. Will probably go ahead and get that 638. Thanks again.
Thanks for the info, guys. I have seen this on other guns, but have not seen the complaints about them. Apparently S&W has a more fanatical following when it comes to appearance, but thats okay. Just wasn't sure what the fuss was about. Will probably go ahead and get that 638. Thanks again.
Kreyzhorse
New member
Will probably go ahead and get that 638
You won't have any problems with the lock and you won't regret your purchase.
secret_agent_man
Moderator
The lock can partially engage if the gun strikes something hard. Don't ask me how I know this. But it is a fact to consider.
spacecoast
New member
The Lock is easily removed on a J frame
Easily removed on any S&W revolver, once you learn how to safely remove the side plate, mainspring and hammer.
First thing I did on my 329PD was remove the IL and replace it with "The Plug" (search on the S&W forum). When I sent it back to S&W for warranty repair, the IL parts were returned in the same small bag that the plug came it. The IL was reinstalled when the gun came back to me. It was removed shortly thereafter.
Andy Taylor
New member
What I find interesting is that no one seems to "like" the lock. Many people dislike, or even hate the lock. A substancial number of folks are "not bothered" by the lock and see it as a non issue. I have never come across anyone who says "I like it and find it gives me piece of mind." or anything of the sort.
carguychris
New member
FWIW my mild dislike for the lock has nothing to do with politics or cosmetics.Many people dislike, or even hate the lock... I have never come across anyone who says "I like it and find it gives me piece of mind." or anything of the sort.
I dislike it because I prefer for it to be obvious when a gun is disabled from firing.* A cable lock through the cylinder window or an external trigger lock clearly accomplish this. It's not so obvious when a shrouded-hammer or internal-hammer S&W is locked up using the ILS.
That said, I have (gasp!) used the ILS on my M638 a handful of times.
*As a footnote, this is also the reason for my oft-repeated preference for mag disconnects over manual safeties on automatic pistols. You KNOW the mag's out the instant you pick the pistol up; not so for a little bitty lever.