Insane, or doable?

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sakeneko

New member
The heaviest .357 Magnum load that I've ever shot from my S&W Model 60-10 revolver (3" barrel steel J-frame) was 158 GR Magtech. I'm looking into getting some rounds specifically to carry for self defense when hiking in bear country. As I understand it, what I want are heavy non-expanding rounds. I've found some 180 and 200 GR rounds advertised over on Midway USA as especially good for hunting.

My question is: is my Model 60 up to handling this stuff. And (perhaps more to the point), am I risking crippling my hands if I try to shoot it? Advice, especially from hunters and people who shoot similar small revolvers, is welcome. :) Thanks!
 
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salvadore

Moderator
I carry a 3" 60-10 with 173 gr. Keiths 358429 loaded to I'm thinkin 1100 FPS in the 3" when fishing or biking in bear country. Probably no where near optimum, but I always have it with me.
 
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Lost Sheep

New member
How big are your bears?

This thread starts talking about the suitability of 9mm, but quickly moves on to heavier bullets. I think you will find it good reading applicable to your question.

My first post in the thread is #26, so I won't go on here.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=410570
or if the link does not work, paste this into your web browser
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=410570

There have been numerous threads on the subject of the suitability of .357, 10mm, 44, and larger and smaller rounds. They do get repeated every Spring.

If I remember a better one, I will post a link here again.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405735
or thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405735
posts 87, 134, 135 and particularly 147.

Lost Sheep

But, do tell us what species and how big are the bears in the area where you expect to be? Knowledge of your threat is paramount and good woodscraft is essential.
 
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roklok

New member
I carry Buffalo Bore 180 grain hardcast in my 640-1 and 60-10 when in the bush. This load is listed as being safe in any modern .357. I have not fired them extensively with this load, but the recoil while quite stiff is not crippling. In a J frame steel revolver, it should not be any worse than shooting an alloy framed .357 with the average 125 to 158 grain loads.
 
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oneounceload

Moderator
Since his location says NV, most likely black bears in the Sierras, unless he is traveling somewhere else for hiking. I used to live near Tahoe, black bears were always climbing in garbage cans, open windows, etc., looking for food
 
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dgludwig

New member
To answer the op's question, it's insane (in terms of recoil) AND doable (in terms of the strength threshold of the Model 60-10). Sounds like a great combination for a compact hiking revolver in black bear country-if you can master the recoil. Extensive practice should make the recoil manageable and even tolerable.
 
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Stumper

New member
Very doable. Yes the heavy bullet loads kick in a J frame, but they aren't crippling. Salvadore's loads are what I would consider just right.
 
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sakeneko

New member
Oneounceload, 1) "He" is a she ;), and 2) I live in Reno. So your guess about the Sierras and black bears is correct. I wouldn't try to get by with my .357 and a hunting load if there were grizzlies around. (I lived in the Pacific Northwest during and after college for a while, so I know you need something more authoritative with those territorial beasties.)

From what people are saying, I could order some 180 or 200 grain hunting loads (maybe a few small boxes of each) and try them out without putting my revolver at risk of a blowup. My hands should survive, right? :rolleyes: Probably not fun, but I shoot and enjoy my husband's 1911 with 230 GR .45 ACP, so I will give this a try.

By the way, I noticed several "hardcast" bullets advertised, and I don't know what that is. Are these unjacketed lead bullets, full metal jacket, or something else? I try to avoid unjacketed lead bullets; just would rather not have to clean the pistol of lead deposits. (Yeah, lazy.)
 
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sakeneko

New member
BrianDG, the bears aren't huge. They're ordinary black bears, neither as large nor as territorial as the brown bears or grizzlies you'll find up north in the Cascades or inland along the Canadian border. They can get aggressive if you corner them, or get between a mother and her cubs (of course), but if they see a human coming most of them just leave. I'm looking for something I can use in the rare situation were one does not act according to pattern. As the recent story from the UK about two twin babies attacked in their home by *foxes*, of all things, illustrates, animals don't always behave according to pattern.

We don't get any peccaries (javelinas) up here near Reno/Tahoe; those are pretty much restricted to the southwestern deserts and Mexico. I don't believe that they see them even around Las Vegas, which is nearly 500 miles southeast of Reno. (For comparison, Los Angeles is about 500 miles due south.) My husband and I encountered a whole herd of them this winter, outside of Sedona, Arizona. They watched us warily, but obviously weren't interested in a fight if we weren't, and we never are. We both carry for S/D, but our only hunting "weapon" is a camera, which got quite a workout that day. :)

It is possible to encounter the occasional feral pig, I am told, but I've never seen signs of one on this side of the Sierras. They're not uncommon in wild lands near the San Francisco Bay area, though. We also have mountain lions. The other large animals tend not to attack humans. (Deer, occasional elk, pronghorns in central Nevada, wild horses and donkeys all over the place.)
 
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salvadore

Moderator
I went with the heavy cast load for penetration. I like the M-60 cause it's easy to carry. I called S&W when I started carrying this load in .38 cases as I can access the crimp groove so the bullet doesn't walk and was assured that this shooter was able to handle the heavy bullets/loads. To compare, I also have an 18oz 396 .44 spec. I load with 180 grainers at .44 spec. pressures. Comparing the two, the M-60 has a ton of blast but little, in comparison, painful recoil associated with the 396. I use baramis with a grip adaptor for convenience of carry, not for shooting comfort. Our griz I'm told are huge at 500lbs, they are not Alaskan size griz. None the less, I carry an extra speed loader and one cartridge in my pocket in case I have to put myself out of misery. Oh yeah, and anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.
 
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salvadore

Moderator
Picture076.jpg
 
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sakeneko

New member
That confirms what others here are saying -- this is a safe experiment to try even if I can't know yet whether I can handle the gun sufficiently well with those loads. Since my M60 is a 3" stretch snubby, the blast should be a bit less too. So it's worth spending the money on some ammo for test purposes.

Thanks, all! I'll post after I've tried some of the loads out and tell you how it went.
 
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