Informal Range Report Garand

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baddarryl

New member
Hi all. I finally took out my new to me 1942 SA CMP Service Grade Garand in .30/06 to the range. I had some issues putting her together correctly after the detail strip, but eventually got it worked out. I only had time to put a few clips through her. Overall thrilled to be shooting this fine rifle on July 4!

Here are my preliminary shots using Greek Surplus. The lowest group was standing with a sling rapid fire at 25 yards aiming at the red dot just for fun as these were the first ever for me.

The groups on the red dot were for sighting in. 2 groups of 3, then a group of 2. I settled on 1.25 or so high at 25 yards for BSZ.

The final group on the high right were at 185 yards using just a sand bag for a rest aiming pumpkin on post at the bottom of the green. I must say I was thrilled with that group as it was hot, my shoulder was bothering me etc wah wah. I was a little nervous as I can't see the Irons on my carbine AR anymore, but did fine with the longer radius. I reckon that is close to a 3 MOA group.

At first she seems a little tight as far as seating the clips, chambering rounds etc, but I think she will loosen up with use. Is that normal? The last couple of clips ran fine and I did properly clean, inspect and lube her.

Also is there any estimate for how far I should move the front sight to get her centered at that range? I need to move the group about 6 inches. Thank you.
 
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baddarryl

New member
Orlando what I am saying is to get the group's centered with no wind having the windage sight centered. The manual that came with the gun says to get the front sight so that everything is centered and then use the rear windage site for changing conditions. That's what I'm trying to accomplish.
 
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Kreyzhorse

New member
You could have put those holes in paper with any gun. Without pictures of your M1, I don't believe it happened. :)

Great idea for a 4th Garand shoot, which I'd have taken mine out.
 
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Orlando

New member
Normal procedure is to center front sight and adjust the rear.If you want to do it the other way around you can
 
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bamaranger

New member
mechanical zero

Hello daryl. You are referring to establishing a proper mechanical zero (for windage) for your rifle. Be sure your rear sight is centered on the windage scale if you intend to move the front sight. While checking same, note the distances between the windage marks on the scale. Those marks correspond to 1MOA of adjustment (1" -100yds). Were I shooting to establish zero, I would do so at 100, just to make calculations easier, and my groups tighter, but.....rounding your 185 yd range to 200yds, (1MOA = 2") group appears to be 6 inches right (disregarding the elevation) you are roughly 2.5-3 MOA right.

Two choices, you can put 3MOA left on the rifle rear sight, shoot again and if good live with it, or.......

You can move the front sight RIGHT the equivalent of a 3MOA adjustment on the rear, which looks to be about 1/8" on the scale, by me eyballing it with a ruler on my rifle. That seems like a lot, but hopefully would still keep your front sight in the dovetail. If you elect to move the front sight, pencil an index mark on the sight base and the sight, so you have something to refererence as you experiment. Moving the sights about tends to be a bit trail and error.....and frustrating.

My shooter M1 lives with 1 MOA right by the scale, and does not bother me a bit.

Good shooting by the way......
 
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bamaranger

New member
again

Is your front sight centered in the dovetail at present? A 1/8th move on the front sight really sounds enormous.

If you are committed to moving the front sight, I think I would only move the front sight RIGHT only as far so as to allow the right side of the sight to be even, or a 1/16th or so beyond the base. I would make up the difference with windage on the rear to get on target and live with it.

The sight hanging too far out of the dovetail would look pretty odd. I could live with a MOA or two permanently on the rear sight. I could not stand the front sight looking all whopper-jawed, way offset from its dovetail.

Another thing to check is the fit of the splines on the gas tube assembly. to the grooves on the barrel. This is often very loose, due to frequent removal of the gas tube assembly and bashing about with bayonet drills. If the front sight/tube assembly is flopping around, that can have a very adverse effect on accuracy. VERY LIGHTLY peening a few small punch marks along the sides of the grooves so as to tighten the fit can really help with accuracy, though it may not change the POI as in your case. I LIGHTLY tap my gas tube on/off with a leather or plastic mallet after peening the grooves tighter.
 
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kraigwy

New member
I'm failing to see the difficulty here. A .0078125 inch movement of the sight will move the bullet impact 1 inch at 100 yards. That is a given. If you want to center the front sight then sent the witness marks on the rear sight to the zero or center mark. Shoot the rifle. Measure the distance that front sight needs to be moved to be centered. 6 inches was mentioned. Therefore the front sight needs to be drifted .046875.

Most people don't fool with the front sight. Few of actually do. They simply record their windage zero and that's it. Meaning after shooting the rifle they know how many clicks needed to move from the Zero Witness mark on the rear of the receiver. For example, the zero would be 3L or 4R etc etc.

I went to basic with the M14, which has the same sights. we were required to know the zero of our rifles. The drill sgt. had our zeros recorded and it's have to give the recorded zero before we could get out of the gas chamber, as well as the serial number.

Elev was simpler yet. You sighted the rifle in (at any range) set the windage dials and you're goo to 1100 yards

The M1/M14 sights are the best sights ever put on a military rifle, and the simplest. They are so accurate you can use them as a range finder.

I ran sniper schools for the NG using M1C/Ds. Students would have to make range cards for static defense. One meted of getting the range to an object for the range card was shooting at the object, then checking the rear sight's settings to give you the range to the object, and recording that on the range card.

I have two M1s and one M1A. My windage zero for one of my M1s is 0, (meaning the front sight is centered), the other M1 is 5R, (meaning a no wind zero is 5 clicks right from the Center Mark) and my M1A is 3L. That was the windage zero when I got the rifle, and it hasn't changed since 1977 for the M1A, 1981 for the 1st Garand, and the second I built two years ago in the CMP's Advanced Maint. Clinic.
 
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P5 Guy

New member
No wind condition, the rear sight should be zero or centered. To adjust for breezy condition estimating the wind speed and angle to the bullet's path calls for a click or two L or R according to which way the wind blows.
I zero on dead still day at 100 yards with the front sight, as long as the sight does not overhang. That way I do not have to remember where I need to set the rear sight. It is zero or according to estimated wind speed and direction how many windage clicks are needed to 'Keep it in the ten ring'.
 
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Model12Win

Moderator
The M1 is a good stopper with it's big 3006 shell and put lots of German and Japanese 6 feet under where they belong. It was referred to as "the greatest weapon ever created" but US generals and was well thought of for it's ability to snipe and had a fast rate of fire compared to the bolt operation Mouser rifles the enemy used.
 
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baddarryl

New member
OP here. Thanks guys. As it was my rear sight was not exactly centered so once it was it was about 2 MOA to the other direction. I looked it up and to move 1MOA is about .008 of the front sight. Now way could I measure that, but I just played with it. .016 is not very much! I have her dead on now with the rear sight centered and the front just a little to the left. Thanks for your help everyone.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
The front sight is not supposed to be used to sight in the rifle. Normal procedure is to center the front sight and tighten its screw it so it doesn't move (the early rifles had a cap over the front sight screw so it could not be moved, but that was dropped).

There should be adequate adjustment in the rear sight to allow for any normal sighting in.

Jim
 
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P5 Guy

New member
From Vol. 17 No 3 article...

...GCA Journal All Ready on the Firing Line by Jim Adell.

" There are two reasons for having your mechanical zero close to your windage zero. The first is that is easier to understand and keep track of how much windage you have on your sight. This is more important as you move back in distance say from 300 yards to 600 yards when shooting a match in blowing wind. The second reason is to have as much available to put on the sight, both right and left. This is important if you shoot matches ranges that are prone to strong winds, such as Camp Perry. "

If your windage zero is more than 3 MOA and you have a wide base gas cylinder, you should move the front sight right or left so you can center your rear sight.

The cap seal mentioned above was installed at the arsenal AFTER zeroing the rifle during testing. It was discontinued in the mid 1940s.
 
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