Inaccurate rifle woes

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dakota.potts

New member
Took my Mosin 91/30 out to shoot it today and was less than pleased with the results. Although it grouped some of the time, it may be more accurate to say that it patterned. I was on my sillhouette every shot at 50 yards, but that's about the best that could be said about it. Possibly a crudely effective weapon in the hands of somebody who needs it, but not what I'm satisfied with.

I'm blaming the majority of it on my scope and scope mount. I have one of those UTG Tri-rail scope mounts with an Ncstar LER scope. Planning on selling these and replacing it. Since I bent the leaf spring to hell removing the rear leaf sight I'm planning on replacing it with a Mojo peep sight and just learning to shoot it with irons.

Do you think I can expect to shrink my group size noticeably? The "good group" wasn't too terrible but was still fist sized at 50 yards. There were also fliers in both directions and I'm not sure what those were about other than maybe the scope mount rocking. I did notice that with enough force I could move it up and down with just my hands.

http://imgur.com/VNnsbvJ

That's a link to my target since the picture is too big for the forum's uploader.
 
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SIGSHR

New member
Have you fired it much before ? Where and when was yours made? What ammo were you using ? What does the bore look like ?
 
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dakota.potts

New member
It's an Izhvesk (did I spell that right)? 1943 in pretty good condition. Surprisingly light trigger and clean bore. Maybe not the absolute sharpest I've seen, but bright with strong definition in the rifling and no noticeable pitting or rust at all.

It is the second time I've fired it. I should have kept the targets last time. It shot high even at my lowest scope setting (due to a poor set up I believe) but at least grouped consistently while it was high. That time I was shooting 147 gr. Russian military ammo from the white boxes (uncorrosive) as well as Wolf 174 gr Military classic and Wolf 200 gr Soft Point. The soft point actually pulled it down into my POA pretty well.

This time I was shooting Monarch 174 gr steel case ammo.
 
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dakota.potts

New member
I bought the riffle as a "modder" and foolishly decided to take the rear iron sights off to put the scope mount on bfore even shooting it. To do so, I had to remove the leaf spring that was soldered into the rear sight base. I have the leaf spring, but it's now got a nearly 90 bend in it (from forcing it out of the base) and I have no idea how to properly reinstall it even if it weren't bent.

I will probably go with aftermarket rear sights since they'll install without the leaf spring and are more easily adjustable.
 
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jeager106

Moderator
You trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear??????
The rifle is a crude fighting rifle not capable of great accuracy.
The ammo is pretty much junk stuff. ( if milsurp )
I've had 2 Mosin rifles, one was the carbine, bought a 440 rnd case of 1944 made milsurp ammo.
Lousy rifle. Worse ammo.
I pulled bullets & found they varied 7 grains in wieght , the powder charge as much as TEN grains in weight.
Junk, not even safe, & corrosive.
I know. Someone will post about "my buddy's rifle" that shoots under an inch at 100 yards and some guy hit a 15 square foot outhouse at 1500 yards off hand ten times in a row with a Mosin Nagant & milsurp ammo; but I live in a real world.
 
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Duzell

New member
@jeager, please watch the 1000 yard mosin shot video in the general part of the forums, might impress you,



the UTG tri rail is... junk....

there are plenty of higher end rifle mounts for the mosin , rock solid is on mine, and they guarantee it out to 800 , or something yards (rather good warranty)

you can get bolt + mount for 160$ together

if thats out of your price range (cant blame you), there are a few other companies that make good mounts. brass stacker comes to mind. (i used the scout mount, but i had to give it up , for the rock solid)

scope wise, id recommend the redfields or a few barksa scopes i have for dependability

the mosins were designed as a battle rifle, and some were converted to a marksmen (meaning a fixed 4x side scope added) for the snipers.

the construction as jeager states is crudely manufactured. but the engineering is sound, and its structure is very dependable.

i have a thread on accurazing a mosin with and without permamods if you needed just search mosin in the search bar of the forums. but a bipod couldn't hurt. or if your not sure if its you, the gun or the scope. try using a bench to fire and see how that goes.
 
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jimbob86

Moderator
Are the stock screws tight?

The first time I fired mine, the accuracy was atrocious ..... when I took it home and cleaned it, I noticed the stock was loose ....... the screws were loose enought that I could turn them with a fingernail.

It shot much better (3" 10 shot groups @100, off of sticks using the iron sights) when the screws were tightened.
 
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Duzell

New member
a very good point ^, make sure you've disassembled the rifle and cleaned thoroughly. and oiled, greased all necessary points
 
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jeager106

Moderator
1000 yard shot with an issued WWII Mosin would NOT impress me.
Elmer Kieth claims to have shot an Elk at 600 yards with a revolver & that isn't impressive, it's dumb.
Once in a great while even a junker rifle will hit an intended target with junk ammo.
After all the bullet must hit something someplace.
 
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dakota.potts

New member
Hey guys,
Rifle has been disassembled multiple times for cleaning and I've turned the action screws good and tight with a good gunsmithing screwdriver.

It has a bipod on it and that group was shot from a bench while seated.

The ammo is not milsurp. It is made in Russia and is steel cased so maybe roughly Wolf or Tulammo quality, but should still be better than milsurp.

Not trying to make a "silk purse" but would like something resembling a group rather than a shotgun pattern.

I'm also trying not to get really big into it money wise (it still is a Mosin after all) so I'll likely find some good aftermarket iron sights and then test the accuracy from there.
 
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Huffmanite

New member
My only comment is based on how a Mosin rifle has performed when its been tried in our private ranges monthly surplus rifle competition. We just shoot ten shots at a 100 yd target from benchrest. I like it when someone shows up with a Mosin to shoot. LOL, know I won't have the lowest score.
 
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Justice06RR

New member
There are a few factors that can be affecting your results.

Ammo, shooting setup (bench rest setup), shooting technique, and the rifle itself.

Ideally you want to shoot the rifle with the iron sights. Anything aftermarket is suspect and susceptible to issues and can affect your basic accuracy.

While a Mosin is no tack driver, you can expect man-sized groups. If you can keep it in the silhouette at 50 or 100 yards, you should be ok.

Remember that the groups will open up as the rifle gets hotter and the more you shoot.
 
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Gunplummer

New member
I never noticed that about a Russian(Groups opening up with heat), but I really never shot one much. I owned one a looong time ago and it was a hex receiver long gun that was really accurate. I simply could not find enough ammo to get it hot. I have shot the hell out of other surplus guns and they got more accurate as they heated up. The Arisakas really tighten up with rapid fire heat. I am thinking that late war production guns are hit or miss with accuracy from any country, except from countries that had unlimited resources.
 
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Duzell

New member
take pictures of the receiver, in out, bolt, and overall rifle from the side, above and below

if your uncomfortable showing serial number and the like place tape over it

there maybe things we can pic up that can help with recommendations for the rifle

-warning-
DO not use a blur effect to distort the serial number, its easy to fix the image back to normal using DSP techniques , and this negates the whole trying to cover the serial with a blur effect. tape is best
 
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jj320

New member
try lapping the crown. 1/4 x1 brass round head machine screw valve lapping compound. put the screw in a drill and put lapping compund on s rew head it will center itself. and run the drill . easy and cheap lots of you tube videos in it just did a vz 24 I shortend tonight waiting to get to range to try it.
 
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