In praise of the term "Old Vaquero"...

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Jim March

New member
Folks,

Ruger screwed up. OK? Fact is, all Ruger SAs from 1973 forward are "New Model" actions. Which means the proper terms for the "original Vaquero" is "New Model Vaquero", and the NewVaq is really the "New Model New Vaquero".

Somebody at Ruger needs to be strangled with a dictionary.

This would all be funny except it's NOT - load the wrong ammo (45LC+P) of exactly the same shape as fits the NewVaq into a NewVaq, and you risk damage at best, blowup at worst.

So "Old Vaquero" is something we have to use to differentiate the guns. PLEASE, for the love of God, no more complaints about the term. It's stupid, petty and raises the odds somebody blows their hand off.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
While I agree that Ruger could have, and should have done it better

The guns are what they say on them. My New Model Blackhawks say "new model Blackhawk". My Superblackhawk says "new model SuperBlackhawk"
My Vaquero says "Vaquero", and my new Vaquero says "new Vaquero".

Yes, they are all using the post 1973 "new model" action, but they are properly called what is stamped on the frames. Adding "new" and "old" as descriptive terms for specific models (while accurate), can actually add to the confusion, particularly among shooters who are not very familiar with Ruger markings and their history.
 
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CraigC

Moderator
Jim's right, as usual. I believe confusion can be best avoided with a little education and simply using the proper terms "Vaquero" and "New Vaquero". For some reason, people just HAVE to add more descriptors like "Old" or "Old Model" or use rather ambiguous terms like new Vaquero or new model Vaquero (note capitalization). In other words, make things more complicated than they already are and unnecessarily. While it is entirely unnecessary, I have no problem with the "original" or "old" verbiage but "Old Model" is a factory designation for pre-1973 single actions with the traditional half-cock action and three action screws in the frame. "New Model" is a factory designation for those 1973-present single actions with the transfer bar action and two pins in the frame. So there is no such animal as an Old Model Vaquero and that's where I draw the line.

Vaquero.
New Vaquero.
Both New Models.
Note capitalization.
Simple.
 
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Poseidon28

Moderator
Well, I won't buy any of the new guns. To darn expensive, and, maybe, now that Obamamania is slowing down, we'll see the guns priced at what they are worth.

It sure makes it a pain to have to figure out if it's new, old or whatever, and what I can put in it.

Think next SA I buy is a BFR.
 
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Jim March

New member
The term "Old Vaquero" to match "New Vaquero" isn't just something I use - I see it on EVERY forum with wide acceptance.

The real fault lies with Ruger. They should have named the NewVaq something else...ANYthing else.
 
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Uncle Buck

New member
As a new shooter of the .45 Long Colt and a new owner of the New Vaquero, I did not know the differences (or that there was another model) until I started to reload.
When I asked for a .45 colt, I was shown everything except the revolver. That is why I am much more specific when I say .45 long colt, they know what I am asking for (and I catch heck from the purist "There is no such thing as a .45 long colt") and I do not spend 5 -10 minutes explaining it.
My revolver says New Vaquero on it and that is what I call it. If I come across a Vaquero and have the money with me to purchase it, I will call it a Vaquero.
We do more to alienate new shooters by insisting they call their guns by a name we are familiar with, instead of educating them on the reason behind the names.
I like to shoot, but I do not really care what makes a one revolver different from the other. If it uses batteries to make it shoot and I like the gun, I will buy it. The name of the gun belongs to the company that made it and if they decided to name the gun "Pinkies Little Boomer" then they are the ones who market it under that name.
I understand (now that I have read a lot more) what Jim is saying and he is right, they have caused confusion with the name. But at the time I bought my New Vaquero, it was unimportant to me. I suppose if I was not reloading, it would still be unimportant to me.
 
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Crosshair

New member
Vaquero.
New Vaquero.
Both New Models.
Note capitalization.
Simple.
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No it is not. It results in confusion, thus why people have called them Old Vaquero and New Vaquero. If someones says they have a "Vaquero" you still have to ask them, "New model or old model" because the issue of frame strength is an awfully important thing and you don't know if they really do have an "Old Vaquero" or if they have a New Vaquero" unless they say so.
 
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Daryl

New member
Jim March,

You're my hero. I've been seeing this ever since Ruger messed the whole thing up.

Honestly, I don't think it's true shooters who care one way or the other. It's the collectors who are offended that their "old model Blackhawk" might lose something in the use.

They're Vaqueros, both new and old. They didn't make them back before 1973 when Ruger changed the lockwork, so there's no confusion.

As a note, I think I was the one who first suggested "original Vaquero" over on the Ruger board, just to keep the literary geniuses at bay. There is no confusion on my part when I see "old Vaquero", because they all use a transfer bar and the only meaningful difference to me is in the size of the frame.

But I'm a shooter, and couldn't care less what folks call 'em as long as they load the right ammo in the right gun.

Daryl
 
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CraigC

Moderator
It's the collectors who are offended that their "old model Blackhawk" might lose something in the use.
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Not at all! I'm not a collector but the incorrect usage of "Old Model" gets on my last nerve. Why? Because it's an official factory designation for pre-`73 single actions with the traditional half-cock action. Which the Vaquero is certainly not. So not only does it seem rather silly to me to call a Vaquero, which is a New Model single action with the New Model action, an Old Model but it unnecessarily muddies the waters and causes more confusion than it's intended to avoid. Now we have folks wondering why their Vaquero does not have a half-cock notch. Why? Because folks are just intent on adding extraneous descriptors and making things FAR more complicated than necessary.

Why is it so damned hard to just call them what is stamped right on the frame? Vaquero or New Vaquero. Just like York and New York. They didn't change the name to Old York or Old Model York just because they founded a new one, did they? Of course not, because York and New York are very distinct names.
 
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Daryl

New member
So not only does it seem rather silly to me to call a Vaquero, which is a New Model single action with the New Model action, an Old Model but it unnecessarily muddies the waters and causes more confusion than it's intended to avoid.
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Well, for it to be a "new model", wouldn't there have to be an old one? What's silly to me is all this stupid garbage about only calling a pre-73 Ruger an "old model".

The Vaquero doesn't say "New Model Vaquero". The NM Blackhawk says "New Model Blackhawk", and my NM Single Six says "New Model Single Six". My Vaquero's just say "Ruger Vaquero", yet you insist it's properly called a "New Model Vaquero", when there really is another model called a "New Vaquero".

Why? Because it's an official factory designation for pre-`73 single actions with the traditional half-cock action.
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And after all that, you still try to push factory designations?

Now THAT seems silly to me, and WHO'S causing confusion? Who's adding extraneous descriptions?

Why is it so damned hard to just call them what is stamped right on the frame?
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Ok, then go on any knowledgable gun board on the 'net and ask what loads your "Vaquero" can handle. I can almost guarantee that one of the first questions will be "which Vaquero are you talking about? The New Vaquero, or the...ummm...shudders...OLD one??"

Oops.

Talk about nonsense. There's been more bandwidth wasted trying to work around and avoid the one word "old" than any other word I can even think of. Someone ought to put it on the sensor list, just to be sure we're all in compliance with the literary masterpieces of the World Wide Web.

And all this nonsense, when just refering to it as the "old Vaquero" would clearify it perfectly. Remember, they didn't make any prior to '73, so there should be no confusion. If someone's confused about that, then they ought to study up on their Ruger knowledge a bit.

Daryl
 
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Rich Miranda

New member
Which means the proper terms for the "original Vaquero" is "New Model Vaquero", and the NewVaq is really the "New Model New Vaquero".
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I won't pretend to really understand what is going on here, :D but instead of "New Model New Vaquero," wouldn't it actually be "New New Model Vaquero"?
 
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ChiefTJS

New member
Kinda makes me glad I have a life. Oh, wait a second, I just read every post in this thread and actually posted to it. :eek:

To me it's either a Vaquero or a New Vaquero, no more muddying is needed.
 
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Laz

New member
What's wrong with calling a Vaquero an "original" Vaquero if you think someone won't understand what you mean? The New Vaquero needs no clarification at all. Or, distinguish by referring to a large-frame Vaquero and a medium-frame New Vaquero. It ain't that hard for anyone who is really interested in knowing what they have or what they're talking about.
 
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Daryl

New member
Or, how about we call 'em what we want, and others who know what we're talking about can stop complaining about stuff that doesn't matter?

It's usually just the self-appointed experts that are complaining.

The word "old" is a descriptive term used to describe something. There's nothing sacred or reserved about it.

Daryl
 
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rclark

New member
After reading the above posts I can see using 'old Vaquero' to describe the Vaquero for those that easily get confused or don't/can't read what's written on their gun. I am sure, not all of us here are engineers and call things by their 'exact' names which, BTW, stops confusion and unnecessary questions..... Just as long as they don't call it the 'Old Model Vaquero' which is absolutely wrong! I'll continue to call them Vaquero and New Vaquero ... and .45 Colt is the caliber because I feel they are the right terms.... Others can do call 'em what they prefer :) .
 
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