IN or OH; Recommendations

[carpfisher]

Okay, I turned down the job in IL. Too many sucky gun laws. Interviewing for a new one on the border and I have the choice of where to live.
From a gun law, tax base viewpoint, which is better?

 

[D-Ric902]

Indiana has had ccw for years and just this year passed a lifetime carry permit. Technically its an open carry state but not many people do, have not heard of any real problems with it though.
Ohio on the other hand..... lots of problems in recent years. They just got ccw and are still "working out the bugs".

Indiana also had a budget surplus and tried to lower most property taxes. Mixed results with that one.
Pro gun gov for the most part. But we do get the title of being the home state of Paul Helmke (Brady president)

 

[Sevens]

From a gun law, tax base viewpoint, which is better?

Not sure I understand the tax base question... I can't tell you which is better for taxes. In fact, I don't know jack about Indiana laws, so I can only tell you a little bit about Ohio.

I most often compare it to Michigan because that's the only other place I've lived. I say Ohio is better than Michigan for gun laws. In Michigan, all handguns must be registered-- you first have to obtain a permit to purchase from your local police, then when issued that piece of paper, hand it to the gun store to purchase. Then you must take your recently purchased handgun back to the police station where they inspect it, which can be done quickly or several days. When the inspection is done, they register it to you with your fingerprint, then you get to take it home. As I understand, you can skip the purchase permit if you are licensed for concealed carry.

Yeah, I realize that you didn't ask about Michigan, but a lot of folks don't realize that some states do this. This is something to compare with.

In Ohio, there is no registration of handguns or otherwise. If you can pass the NICS check, you go home with your handgun. While it's true that concealed carry is relatively new to Ohio (I think we got it in 2004?), they have indeed worked many of the bugs out of it. You need 12 hours of instruction which is offered in many places for anywhere from $100 to $200. Because Ohio is a "shall issue" state, you don't need to give a reason or prove to any judging board why you want or need one. If you don't have a record and haven't been judged incompetent, have no mental health history, have no domestic abuse history and no drug history, the county must issue you the permit within 30 days. The permit is good for 4 years and can be renewed with nothing more than a visit to the office. After that first renewal, I'm not sure if more instruction is required or not. (I'll be doing it myself this week)

Ohio has also recently passed their own version of the Castle Doctrine which I am a big fan of. And I'm pretty sure that Ohio has open carry as well, but like any place in the USA outside of a cattle ranch in Wyoming or Texas, carrying in the open is not going to be recommended lest you wish to incite panic.

All in all, Ohio isn't anywhere near the horrible anti-gun states like NY, CA, MA, WI, IL and others.

 

[B. Lahey]

Indiana has no training requirement for carry permits and $100 or so will get you a lifetime permit. No registration of anything. IN is NFA-friendly if you want machineguns, suppressors, etc...

It's a wonderful state for gunowners.

 

[carpfisher]

Stevens,
I am in MI now so I have lived the dream you describe.

Thanks to all for the input so far. I was next to a guy from IN last week at Camp perry for the M1 shoot and he said the same thing about IN. His quote was something along similiar lines, " IN is great, we can have hand grenades, flame throwers, what ever you want!"

I like the lifetime permit. MI was gonna cost me in a year or so if I stayed here.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

I live across the river from both Ohio and Indiana and as a Kentucky permit holder, Indiana is a much better state for CCW than Ohio. To Ohio's credit, they are getting better. The "buckeye tuck" is dead and they have adopted the Castle Doctrine.

 

[tacticalmedic]

Indiana

I live on the Ohio / Indiana border and work with people who live in both states. Taxes are MUCH cheaper in Indiana than in Ohio. Land is cheaper and the thug / criminal element is lower in Indiana, (if you stay out of the bigger cities). I will be moving to Indiana as soon as possible.

 

[carpfisher]

Tac:
Good input. thanks. the job is in Union City so it is literally right on the border!

 

[Tom2]

I think Ohio is worse economically than Ind. and I have always envied their easy CCW access and the like. Well we got it in Ohio now, with flaws. But still the economic future is not bright here. I suppose if you stay out of Gary and any larger urban areas you will enjoy it. I would if I could. Does seem to be more consistently Democrat than Ohio IMO though. Well we are in a demo. phase right now again. That will last until the gov't gets like Dick Celeste again and reverse. I hope.

 

[exar]

Yeah, can't think of many(any) states with lifetime permit.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

Yeah, can't think of many(any) states with lifetime permit.

I think Indiana is the only state with a lifetime. It was proposed once in Kentucky but the legislation when no where.

 

[TheBluesMan]

As a proud Ohioan, I have to say that given the choice, you should choose Indiana.

 

[Sevens]

A quick update, as I just today did my Ohio CHL training.

It's $55 to register for the concealed handgun permit in Ohio as a resident. Ohio is reciprocal with many other states, but does not issue out of state permits to anyone. If you live in Ohio and you move away, your Ohio permit is revoked.

It's good for 5 years, and only a visit to the issuing Sheriff is needed for renewal the first time. (and a fee? Not sure) The second renewal? That's still new territory here, no word on it yet.

Today I completed the mandatory 12 hours. 10 hours of class, two hours on the range. The range time is basically showing that you know how to load/unload, safety and clear a stoppage, and which end does all the damage. It's incredibly basic. The class instruction is also basic, but spends a good bit of time trying to educate on the ramifications of legal concealed carry and the use of deadly force. It's only the tip of the iceberg, but it's a good start. After having taken it, I honestly can't complain about the class requirement-- we had some really new folks, a small handful had never discharged a firearm before the range session.

As an aside, when we looked at the map showing which states were reciprocal with Ohio, Indiana and PA were not, and these two were the most obvious because they are adjacent states. While the instructor did not elaborate on PA's situation, he did mention that Ohio elected not to be reciprocal with Indiana chiefly because (as was stated early in this thread) Indiana requires no training.

At my class, for a small fee, they prepared our Florida application. With a Florida out of state permit, and all the states reciprocal to that Florida permit (and all the ones reciprocal to Ohio), Ohioans with both permits are legal in 33 of 50 U.S. States. Florida needs $117 to issue their permit, along with proof of instruction, finger prints, application, photo, etc etc.

And yeah... the Florida permit makes us legal with both Indiana and Ohio. And better still, the Florida permit is a life-time permit. They do expect you to renew, but that renewal is through the mail and may not be anything more than a renewal form, but should not incur the large fee.

Months ago when we had a thread in here about the Florida permit, I asked everyone why it is that Florida issue out of state permits so easily. Our instructor today pretty much summed it up by saying that Jeb Bush when to the Dept of Ag in Florida and said (paraphrase) , "Go and generate income for the State of Florida by offering out of state concealed carry permits" and to date, 800,000+ people have taken Florida up on the offer, at $75 (plus $42 to process finger prints) per person. That's some income, for sure.

To sum it up, reading over this thread points toward Indiana as the better choice for the original poster. But all I can say is this-- I wasn't born here in Ohio and I do have my favorite places in this country, but I'm pretty happy that I live here. And as far as gun laws, it's been a banner decade or so for us, and each year brings more good news. From the recent Castle Doctrine to the newest tweaks to the concealed carry laws (going in to effect in September), this is a darn good place to be. It's not like some of the real pro-gun states like in the open west or in the south, but I'm relatively happy here in Ohio. (and for the record, I am not a Buckeye fan )

 

[guy8452]

I have had a ccw permit for years and just got my lifetime permit ind. is way better for gun owners who want to carry. also i was a policemen for 3 years in my small town and it seemed as if the ohio drivers were the worst i pulled more over for speeding than i care to count

 

[Webleymkv]

So long as you stay out of that little blob up north where Chicago spilled over, Indiana's great. Having moved here from the People's Republik of Illinois I'd call it a night and day difference.

 

[TheBluesMan]

As an aside, when we looked at the map showing which states were reciprocal with Ohio, Indiana and PA were not, and these two were the most obvious because they are adjacent states. While the instructor did not elaborate on PA's situation, he did mention that Ohio elected not to be reciprocal with Indiana chiefly because (as was stated early in this thread) Indiana requires no training.

While this is technically true, it doesn't tell the whole story. Reciprocity isn't really the issue. Whether another state recognizes Ohio's CCW permit is what is important.

Take a look at these maps:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/maps/ohio_map.gif
http://www.handgunlaw.us/maps/indiana_map.gif

Indiana does recognize Ohio's CHL.
Ohio does not recognize Indiana's CHL as you said, due to lack of age and training requirements.

You are completely legal to carry in Indiana with your Ohio permit.

Technically speaking, Ohio has reciprocity agreements with only 18 states, yet with my Ohio CHL, I can legally carry in 26 states.

Spend $26 and get a Pennsylvania non-resident permit and you pick up PA, ND, GA, MS, LA, TX for a total of 32 states in which you can legally carry. The only states that Florida adds that PA doesn't is NV and AL. Hardly worth the additional $90+.

...only a visit to the issuing Sheriff is needed for renewal the first time. (and a fee? Not sure)

Not exactly true. You will need a copy of your training certificate that is dated within the past six years. You will need your current CHL. You will be re-fingerprinted. You will need to complete the application again. The renewal fee is the same as the initial fee.

The second renewal? That's still new territory here, no word on it yet.

Here's the word you should have received. You do not have to go through the 12 hr. training course again, but you do have to be re-tested.

 

[Webleymkv]

Indiana recognizes all other states CCL except of course Illinois and Wisconsin because they don't even allow CCW for their own residents. Also, Indiana is somewhat unusual in that you can get a CCL at the age of 18 as opposed to 21 in most other states.

 

[Sevens]

I would like to understand why I need to be re-fingerprinted. Would my finger prints change at some point? (I suppose an injury could certainly do this)

I mean, I can see submitting a new application asking the same questions about whether or not I've spent time in a mental institution or if I abuse alcohol or drugs, and I can see if they want to know any new residences I've had since the last application. I can also understand them wanting more $$$ from us, no surprise.

I just don't see what there is to gain by fingerprinting the same guy twice, unless it's because they can charge me for the service of finger printing.

Now, when you say I have to be re-tested, do you mean range tested? Come to think of it, our instructor may have said exactly that. What I think he said is that the laws regarding CHL in Ohio have changed more than 34 times since right to carry began in Ohio, and that 5 years from now, there's a good chance the requirements for renewal have changed.

In any case, I appreciate the info.

Now, with regards to Indiana issuing a CCL to persons 18 years of age (under 21), isn't it Federal law that says you can't legally purchase handgun ammunition until you are 21? (or is that some state's laws? I know Michigan and I think Ohio both ask when you purchase)

Because I'd find it pretty odd that a state says you can legally carry concealed but you aren't legally allowed to purchase ammo for the handgun you legally carry. Of course, I thought was equally obnoxious that on the day I turned 18 while living in Michigan, I took two revolvers to the local police station to have licensed to me, being able to legally own both but not being old enough to legally purchase either of them for another full 3 years.

 

[Webleymkv]

Now, with regards to Indiana issuing a CCL to persons 18 years of age (under 21), isn't it Federal law that says you can't legally purchase handgun ammunition until you are 21? (or is that some state's laws? I know Michigan and I think Ohio both ask when you purchase)

Because I'd find it pretty odd that a state says you can legally carry concealed but you aren't legally allowed to purchase ammo for the handgun you legally carry.

Yes, it is federal law that you can't purchase handgun ammunition from a retailer until age 18, however purchases of ammo from individuals and reloading components are different matters. What you're seeing here is an odd phenomenon resulting from the fact that Indiana has had their CCL law on the books since before the passage of the aforementioned Federal law. At the time Indiana's law was passed, there was no age restriction on ammunition. The state law simply hasn't been changed because of a subsequent federal one.

 

[HKuser]

Months ago when we had a thread in here about the Florida permit, I asked everyone why it is that Florida issue out of state permits so easily. Our instructor today pretty much summed it up by saying that Jeb Bush when to the Dept of Ag in Florida and said (paraphrase) , "Go and generate income for the State of Florida by offering out of state concealed carry permits" and to date, 800,000+ people have taken Florida up on the offer, at $75 (plus $42 to process finger prints) per person. That's some income, for sure.

This is simply not correct. It was a legislative battle to get OOS FL licenses passed. In the early '90 there were highly publicized cases of criminals attacking and murdering rental car drivers because they believed that they were tourists and unlikely to be armed. Whether that the reason those tourists were selected for that reason is irrelevant. It somewhat spooked tourists. Pro-gunners capitalized on it and convinced the legislature after a lot of arm twisting to change the law to allow non-resident licenses. Jeb was not governor at the time. When I got my NR FL license, soon after they began issuing them, it was some other Dept than Ag doing the processing, I believe it was State. I'm sure the additional income is welcome, but that wasn't the driving factor.