In need of better home defense firearm

[ace4059]

I am in need of a better home defense firearm. I currently have a tactical Benelli 12ga. But I am having doubts with the "few" 5 rds in it. I know most agree a shotgun is the best home defense gun, but I am wanting something with more rounds since home burglaries are becoming more common.
Recently, home burglaries are no longer the one unarmed person breaking in during the day while you are away. It has become more common where 3 or 4 armed men (mostly meth heads) break in during the night while the occupants are asleep. One case was where all occupants were killed. In another case, the Homeowner ran out of bullets (2, 15 rd mags), and was shot twice by the BG (homeowner did survive). So I am thinking I might need more than the 5 (4 +1) rds of 00 buck. The Sheriff can be over 20 mins away in the rural areas, so 911 doesn't help much in that aspect.

My needs are:
Something with more capacity and more firepower.
I want something with high round capacity. Something with 30+ rds. Semi-auto since the high rd count and for quick reloading
Needs to be fairly small, but a medium gun will work (some type of pistol). My shotgun is a little large (about 40" overall in length). So it needs to be able to maneuver well in small rooms and hallways.
100% reliable

Those are my three basic needs for it.
I do not care about over penetration. No neighbors around, I'm the only one in the house. Really any sized caliber will work.

My first thoughts were my G17 and get some 33rds mags but I keep that in the car. I want a gun solely for the bedroom, so I could get another G17. But I may want a rd with more firepower than the 9mm.
I could use my Ar15 with 16.5" barrel, but it is long and hard to maneuver in the house like the shotgun.


So what about the AR or AK pistols? They look like they would fit my needs (small, only about 17"-20" in overall length, high capacity mags with lots of firepower), but are they a good home defense gun? Does anyone have any experience with these? Are they more of a novelty gun, or will they live up to their expectation? How well do they shoot since it is a rifle round fired through a 7"-10" barrel?

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks
-Ryan

 

[Glenn Dee]

Hey Ryan

Welcome to the forum. Sometimes a firearm isnt the best answer. I do believe that a firearm should be the last answer, or a last resort. Without knowing you particular circumstances I wonder if you really want to shoot up your home with 30 rouds of anything.

Deterence is something you may want to look at before going to a lot of firepower. Deterence such as lighting, an alarm, and IMO best is a good dog. Criminal's in my experience are basically lazy, and will follow the path of the least resistance. If your home is somewhat armored with lighting, an alarm, and a noisy dog it probably will be less attractive to the criminal element.

OK we all know that a lot of crooks arent at all smart. And there may be one that will fail to take notice of the lights, alarm sticker, and noisy dog. My personal opinion is that your 5 shot Benilli is more than adiquate to defend a home. However if you are feeling undergunned, a handgun as a backup might fill that niche.

I also use a 12ga shotgun for home defense. But I also have a revolver as a dack up ... Just in case.


Glenn D.

 

[WESHOOT2]

I utterly disagree

Use a Glock (or S&W M&P or SA XD) in 9x19 with factory standard-capacity magazines.
Keep an extra magazine loaded and handy, right next to your flashlight.

 

[Falcon642]

+1 for everything mentioned above. In many cases a good dog, lights, and alarms are worth far more than a gun.

But to your original question, in your situation I would get a springfield 1911 doublestack that holds 13 +1 rounds of .45acp, and I would get a saiga 12 gauge shotgun with a 20 round Drum and a collapsable stock like this one:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct727.aspx

You can buy a saiga for $500 and then buy the accessories as you can afford them.

If you don't feel safe defending your home with a saiga and the 1911 I mentioned, well it's time to move to someplace safer.

 

[spodwo]

I will concur with some of the previous posters here...good dog, good exterior lighting, locks, etc.

Whatever floats your boat but I couldn't think of a worse home defense item than an AR pistol. Take a snappy round like a .223 and put it in a pistol type setup? It's pretty clumsy to handle and in the dark - you will go blind with the flash of a .223 round. You are going to have so much unburned powder ingniting if front of your face...it's a rifle round that you shoot through a 7.5" barrel. And an AK Pistol with the standard 7.62 round? Try to tame that beast when you shoot it...

And if you are thinking of an AR15 in 9mm...why go to that expense? A glock makes more sense....

Also consider having to shoot one with one hand vesus a true pistol also. What happens should you lose the grip capability of one hand? Advantage to a regular pistol in that scenario.

Having said that - I have a shotgun that I really like, a Mossberg 930 SPX that can hold 9 rounds of buck [8+1]. &+1 if Mag loads...9 rounds of .00 buck certainly doesn't make me feel like I don't have a sufficient number of shells.

For a Pistol - I would consider a G17, 3rd Gen, Smith M&P in 9mm, Beretta, etc. The newer defense loads of a 9mm are very good. Plus you can put a nice light on it and you have a one handed home defense weapon should the need arise.

Strictly my opinion...

 

[tet4]

Unless you are looking for an excuse to buy a new gun (no judgement here) get a side saddle for your shotgun and train with it. You know the saying, shoot one load one...

How long of a barrel do you have on your shotgun?

If you want a double stack pistol for the bedside, there are plenty out there. Just pick the one you want. As to caliber differences, I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference either way as long as it is 9mm+. You're still going to have to place your shot correctly.

Frankly, I would worry less about round count and more about better security. Alarm system, dogs, better doors (internal and external), etc. Those buy you time.

 

[Skans]

Here are a few suggestions:

Micro UZI in .45
MAC10 in .45
DSA TP9 9MM Assault Pistol
Skorpion Assault Pistol
Sites Spectre pistol - 9mm or 40S&W

 

[vito]

If the risk of multiple intruders is real, you probably should be thinking of moving. Maybe what you need is an M-60, or mines planted strategically throughout your house with remote detonators. In most of the country I think a 5 round snubbie is probably adequate, in terms of rounds, to handle most home defense situations. Again, if I felt that a 12-ga was not enough home defense, I would move regardless of other considerations.

 

[Tomaz45]

The key phrase here is DEFENSE. You note the repeated advise to invest in deterents...PLEASE DO. Then study you interior with an eye to "If it happens, where can I best defend my position." Your firepower is more than enough but if you care to add a hi-cap sidearm, do so. Remember this is defense. Make the bastards come to you. Clearing a home, even your own, against possibly multiple intruders.....Not something anyone wants to do. Make sure you have communication means (old cell phone, plugged in, will call 911) then hunker down and wait for the troops. If the bad guys decide to challenge your position, you have plenty to handle it.
Tomaz45

 

[Daryl]

Um...how to put this nicely...

Just how many do you want to kill? If you hit 4 BG's with 5 rounds of buckshot, someone's gonna have a lot of cleaning up to do.

The guy that ran 2 15 round mags empty needs to learn to shoot, but his results vividly show what can happen when one counts on capacity rather than accuracy.

This is in the "handgun" forum, so I'm assuming you want a handgun. I can tell you, without doubt, that a hi-cap handgun won't be "better" than your shotgun. Most times, if a shotgun is available, a handgun should become "back-up".

As far as which one? I'd advise checking a few gunshops to see what you lik3e, and what fits you best. Glock, S&W, Springfield Armory, and a number of other makers offer suitable firearms.

I'd go for something in one of the generally accepted SD chamberings; 9mm, .40 S&W, .357 sig, or .45 ACP.

Daryl

 

[qwik]

Browning hi power comes to mind . Damn fine gun IMO . Can get after market 30 rds + -----> got use to shooting 1911 , then switched to my then new browning, was thinking this is never gonna run out ammo, ((mag)) LOL 2 sec 30 m0re , good times

 

[NickW]

I know most agree a shotgun is the best home defense gun, but I am wanting something with more rounds since home burglaries are becoming more common.

Welcome Ryan;

I know I will catch some flak for this; however, a Shotgun is not a good Home Defense Firearm; it’s too long and cumbersome for an “in the house” defensive firearm situation.

My needs are:
Something with more capacity and more firepower.
I want something with high round capacity. Something with 30+ rds. Semi-auto since the high rd count and for quick reloading
Needs to be fairly small, but a medium gun will work (some type of pistol). My shotgun is a little large (about 40" overall in length). So it needs to be able to maneuver well in small rooms and hallways.
100% reliable

I’m a little confused; small firearms with 30+ rounds are basically 9mm machine pistols used for everything but home defense. FWIW, the only 100% reliable 9mm pistols I’ve ever shot extensively are: Beretta 92/M9, Jericho 941, Ruger P95, Glock 17 gen 2, Glock 19 gen 3.

If you’re just looking for an excuse to buy a machine pistol, hell that works for me, but if you really just need a suburban home defense firearm than go with a .38 revolver, after a six round exchange of lead it will be all over for the BG and/or you.

 

[ace4059]

Yall are killing my reasoning to buy a AR pistol.
Frankly I have enough hand guns. Just most have 10 rd mags or less (a few I have 15 rd mags for) and I have quite a few revolvers. I keep my CCW (PM40) on my night stand (6 rds). In a situation with several home invaders that are cracked out on drugs, I do not want to be reloading. How fast can you reload a .38 special? I just want enough capacity where I will not have to reload. Yes I could buy 15 rds mags for my regular semi-autos, or high capacity 33 rd mags for my G17, but I thought an AR pistol would be better.
Second, I do not want several guns laying around. I want all of them in the safe, except my shotgun and home defense pistol that I choose. That way it is less for whoever to steal if they break in while I am away.
I know accuracy over capacity, but the 31 rds the homeowner fired was at the three men in the kitchen firing back at him. But I was thinking a bigger rd so if they are in my house tiring to kick through my bedroom door or if I need to shoot through the wall. Hints me wanting something like a sub machine gun with lots of rds. It's just going to be me, myself, and I, if something goes really bad, and I want to be the one walking away. I can now see the draw backs of an AR pistol (loud deafening noise, with blinding flash).

I guess I can get an tube extension for my 12ga, and keep the XDM-9 handy.

Edit: My 12ga has an 18.5" barrel, but it is still cumbersome to walk around my house with. Hints me wanting a pistol/sub machine gun.

 

[MLeake]

Shotguns and carbines are only "cumbersome" SD weapons in two scenarios:

1) BG is at point blank range before you are aware of him; this should not happen if you have alarm system and dog(s);

2) You decide to go home clearing, instead of waiting for the police.

Assuming you set up a good defensive position, the shotgun or carbine are much better weapons.

 

[goodspeed(TPF)]

Shoot 5 bad guys with 00buck and I guarantee you the 6th will run away very fast or your money back. It actually sounds to me like you are well armed. Maybe a BIG guard dog is in order, or possibly some training. I really don't think you need more weapons. Not that more weapons is a bad idea.

I guess I can get an tube extension for my 12ga, and keep the XDM-9 handy.

Sounds like you have everything you need right there. I wouldn't bother with the extension tube. Really doode. 5 rounds of 00 buck will make a LOT of hamburger. And an XD for your hip is just about perfect. A BIG dog, good (smart) lighting and training should all be on your list. Keep us posted as to what you decide. Good luck with your decision man. -Goodspeed

 

[COSteve]

While passive prevention like lighting and dogs are a good idea, the OP specifically asked for a firearm option. My 'first defense' HD pistol is a G21 45acp with extra mags for the wife and a G23 40 with extra mags and a paddle holster for me ready to go at all times. However, I really wanted a small, high capacity long gun for better protection as my primary. It would be kept close and ready too. I've got three carbines that I considered for that role.

My Rossi levergun holds 12rds of 158grn JSP 38spl+P (don't need 357mag at close range), my M1 carbine holds 45rds of 110grn JHP (3ea 15rd mags) and of course my AR holds 30rds of 55grn FMJ.

My Rossi with the largest dia bullet is a good stopper at close range, however, an issue with a levergun is that in a high stress event it could be harder to operate and if it jams I'm screwed. The AR, while having a large capacity mag is a big mass for movement in the home and inside, it's really loud with a ton of muzzle flash.

I settled upon my M1 carbine with a 30rd mag and 2ea 15rd backups on the stock as primary because both I and my wife are comfortable with it. The recoil, flash, and noise is lower than the AR and it's much more compact and easier to maneuver. In fact, she would likely use my G21 to defend the bedroom and call the cops while I forward deployed with my 40 and my M1 Carbine.

I've had my carbine for 36years now and it's both reliable with the JHPs and as I said, has lower flash and noise than the AR. The HP ammo helps keep the rounds inside my home while giving me more power than the Rossi shooting 38spl+Ps (976lb/ft ME).

 

[Wag]

Who said "training?"

That is the key, in my opinion. I'm fairly new at considering home defense and of all the things I've heard thus far in the past several months, I'm becoming hyper aware of how woefully inadequate training is for the vast majority of gun owners who have guns for defense of the home.

Myself included.

In a failure, the first person to look at is oneself. So, if a guy was in a firefight with six bad guys in the living and didn't hit any of them, I believe there is a distinct possibility that the homeowner is the problem, not the lack of firepower.

He needed more training.

So, the $64,000 question is, "How/where to get the right training?" Yellow pages? Books? Internet? The range?

I suspect that regardless of the weapon at hand, if you aren't trained for such a high stress situation and if you don't have tactical knowledge, it isn't really going to matter much what firepower you have, whether it's a 12 ga shotgun, an Uzi or a grenade launcher. Without training, whatever success you may have defending your home will often times amount to some degree of luck.

There are two extremes, of course. On the one hand, you'll have the trained commando who can defend his home in his sleep and on the other hand, you have the guy who buys a .38 snubbie and puts it in his nightstand and the ammo on the top shelf of the closet. I suspect most of us are somewhere in between, just by virtue of the fact that we read and post here and most likely, have good familiarity with how our guns work. However, for myself at least, I don't feel that I'm close enough to the commando end of the spectrum and I don't feel exactly comfortable (yet) with my ability to stay cool enough in a "situation" to defend my home.

--Wag--

 

[ClydeFrog]

Good choices; home protection....

If $$$ isn't a big issue and you want to increase your home defense arsenal, I'd suggest the following;
a new S&W Military and Police 627 .357magnum with a CT lasergrip & a powerful white light(ideal would be a pulse type LED type). A green dot laser aiming unit could work. I've seen a few newer laser/light combos but I do not recall the full name.
A factory 125gr JHP from Corbon, Golden Saber, Federal or Speer Gold Dot will do fine. The N frame holds 8 rounds and can be fired one handed if required.
A simple .45acp or .357sig semi-auto pistol as a BUG/2nd gun. A new Glock 21SF .45acp or a SIG Sauer P229R .357sig DAK would fill that roll.
Other models like the HK P2000, HK45compact(LEM), the S&W MP45 or the SIG P220R DAK .45acp could work also.
I honestly would not think you'd need a pile of guns or 50/100rd magazines.
In a real critical incident, 2 large handguns & your 12ga semi-auto in reserve or on stand-by should be more than enough to repel/defend against violent attacks. Ammuntion selection, plans, use of phones-alarms, etc are important too.

 

[egor20]

Check your property first, trim bushes that can help a burglar conceal themselves, outdoor lighting is also a must as is a good alarm system. A noisy dog can also help, doesn’t have to be a man eater, even a yappy ankle bitter is a good early warning system. I’m not worried about the length of my shotgun (Benelli M3) because I’m staying in my bedroom waiting for the Calvary to arrive (wife with a pistol and cell phone in hand). I live out in the country so another thing I do is have my neighbors on speed dial, to let them know what is happening also, hey crooks aren’t too bright if it doesn’t work at my place, they might try them. Nothing in my house is worth my wife or my life (even the horses in the barn, Just don’t tell them)

 

[Skans]

The OP asked a fairly simple question - he's looking for a specific type of handgun; basically an assault type pistol. You may or many not like these kinds of guns, but that's what he is describing. There are a number of them out there, like the ones I posted above. Since concealment is not an issue, there really is nothing wrong with this type of gun for HD either, as long as its reliable. As far as accuracy goes, most of the ones I listed have fixed barrels and can be quite accurate. Capacity ranges from about 25 rounds/mag to 50 rounds/mag.

He didn't ask about shotguns, rifles, or ordinary handguns that hold 13 and less rounds. Personally, I think an assault type pistol can be a very effective HD weapon - I don't know why some of you are trying to get him to consider things he didn't ask about.