In a week of bad news-----More from Colt

PythonGuy

Moderator
As you can tell from my nick, and forum posts, I love Colt firearms. Its sad that no more revolvers will be made by Colt anytime soon, or ever for that matter. Reading even this highly "pro" Colt story, one can't help but get the feeling that this is a Company using every buzzword and corporate spin to cover the fact that they are slowly spiraling inward. I've read PR pieces from corporations that were less biased, but if you read between the lines of what Colt (Mark) wants us to believe, its not a pretty picture. Just my opinion, but I've seen this business tact before. And for the record, I'm referring to the consumer side of Colt, not military sales.
 

jonathon

New member
Wish Colt would crawl under a rock and die, or better yet sell out to people that actually care about freedom.
 

PythonGuy

Moderator
Hahaha, in your dreams 2rugers, it does mean my 4 Pythons are worth a fortune.:D Besides, before I got down to Rugers I'd have a lot of S&W's to go through.:cool:
 

2rugers

New member
LOL,Good comeback PG!:D I bet they will make some special edition runs in the future. Heck, I might even be tempted on one of those, if the price is right of course.:eek: B.
 

jonathon

New member
Article is very interesting.. kind of shows why Colt will never grow Yes, its a wonderful thing they still do a lot of handwork, but limiting their entire production to hand work is counter productive.

This part really summed it up:

Will a Hartford built Colt 1911 look good, have good combat accuracy, and most importantly go bang every time you pull the trigger? And will it hold its value and still shoot well for your grandchildren? Well that is Colts mission… not to compete with the huge MIM houses, and not to compete with the one-man custom shops, but to provide a hand built, forged steel, original design, 100% reliable 1911 using the best components available in a factory pistol today.

It's an honorable goal, but that is a VERY small niche they are serving.

If they want to remain in business, the smart thing to do would be to expand into the lower cost market, as well as expanding their product line. I don't see the civilian part of Colt doing anything but shrinking.

Then again, we are talking about the company that sued to keep others from using the term "M4".
 

DPris

Member Emeritus
That's a very well done essay.
Many points are valid, and most come down to money. Colt has been running down to the bone for several years now. Investment capital available for new equipment went to the military side where Colt knew it could make a profit. There's no money for advertising. There's limited money for salaries (You have no idea how many people were cut a while back, and that was actually beneficial in a top-heavy company. Not too long ago they literally did not have enough people to answer the phones!). 18 months ago there were exactly two people in the Marketing division. There's limited money for R&D, or to gamble on a new and radical (for Colt) design.
The General has done wonders with he had to work with, and overcoming the "We are COLT!" attitude has been a major stumbling block for the company that gave away their civilian revolver, Peacemaker, and AR15 markets years ago by sticking to that arrogance. I'm talking about previous managements, not current, although there's a bit of that attitude left.
Colt's management is doing the best they can, but it's not hard to see why they're sticking with known guns & known processes that they've been set up with for quite a while. They can't do much that's new, no money. Many of the models they've produced are high-per-unit-cost items to produce, which dictates high end user pricing that people complain about. They're sorta stuck with that in trying to maintain both older manufacturing methods on older designs, and in trying to maintain acceptable quality levels.
They're also between a boulder and a titanium wall in that the consuming public will not accept much of a "cheapening" of the Colt line-up. We want cheaper Colts, but boy do we scream if they put MIM parts in 'em! (I certainly do! :D ) The way Colt makes their guns is expensive, if they make 'em cheaper like S&W has done, they'll alienate sections of their market base just like S&W has done.
With no money to come up with something radically new, and not enough general operating capital to continue to float fringe guns that don't carry their weight, the company is in a bad position.
With the Peacemaker, you're looking at a niche market in people who want the real thing, can tell the difference in quality between it and the Italian clones at one-third the price, and are willing to pay the extra. The Peacemaker has a relatively steady demand, but it's not a high volume mover. If Colt tries to cheapen it, it'll die a horrible death after howls of protest by traditionalists. Look what happened with their "affordable" Colt Cowboy. The 1911 situation is sort of a day late & a dollar short. Not much that can be done by Colt to come up with anything really new for the platform. 20 years ago, if the company had listened instead of saying, "We are COLT! They will always come to us, we don't need to change anything!", and kept up with the market that Kimber and Springfield took over with semi-custom variations on a regular production basis, it could have been different. There are already polymer 1911s out there, there are scores of different models & features already out there, there are already $400 1911s to $3000 1911s. What else can Colt realistically do with their 1911s now beyond plugging along with basically the same old thing, and doing a few retros now & then that don't require major re-tooling or re-training? Improved quality is the only answer there, and they're working on it. Otherwise, there's just too much competition by companies offering either cheaper guns with cheaper parts for the low-end market and by true custom outfits catering to the high-end market.
The military sales are the only reason Colt is still in existence. The military division pays the rent, the civilian side limps along. If they can continue to make money in that division, and if Colt can bring back their quality and some of their lost customer base, the civilian side may show some improvement with a new model one of these days.
Some people make indignant posts about why Colt doesn't do this or that, and the answer is money. They're not deliberately trying to ignore us (not nowdays, anyway :) ), they just can't produce guns that we're not buying, and they can't develop shiny new stuff without capital.
Look at a choice- Colt Python at $1400, S&W 686 at $700, Ruger GP100 at $400. Colt holds as much of the quality as possible on a difficult design that requires a lot of experienced hand fitting. S&W goes to MIMs & starts to develop a bit of a spotty QC problem. Ruger designed their revolvers from the get-go to be easy & cheap to manufacture without a loss in quality to do so, and though QC has suffered some here & there since the Old Man died, overall the company is holding to good quality parts at good prices.
Given the above, it's not hard to see where the revolver market has gone, and is still going.
The loss of the revolver line saddens me. Ten years ago I had two loaners at the same time, and could only keep one of them due to finances. One was a Smith Model 19 (which I knew was not going to be in production much longer), the other was a Python. It was actually a hard decision since both were classics, but I kept the Python & I'm glad I did.
With any maker (look at Winchester), if you've got a model you like or want, get it now.
The firearms industry is facing some nasty winds of change.
I hope Colt survives.
Denis
 

PythonGuy

Moderator
Very well put Denis, if they do indeed stay in business constrained by this business model, Colt will only have a small niche market. When it comes to being a major player in the commercial market, I think the train left the station about 15 years ago for Colt. Like an aging patient with a heart condition, only a major lifestyle change can save this patient.
 

Ledhead686

New member
Heard that rumor from a shooter friend of mine about 3 wks. ago and told him he's nuts. How could the manufacturer of the 1911a and the Python -- arguably the best semi-auto and the best revolver ever made -- be going bankrupt?! I just shrugged it off...

Sad indeed.
 

DPris

Member Emeritus
I've got four 1911s, three are Colt, the other's a Baer. The other other one's a Colt Commander. Wouldn't mind a couple more Colts, in that area I'm something of a brand loyalist. But, still looking for two or three older Smiths first. :)
After that, I may very well look for another Series 70 if they're still in production.
Still regretting returning the All American 2000 in '94. Kept the exploded parts diagram workbench pad (need to get that thing framed!), but decided I oughta put my money elsewhere. Woulda been a fun collectible today. :)
There's more shakin' & movin' in the industry than I'm happy about.
Colt may very well drop their civilian side entirely, I've heard it's been up for sale with no takers from several sources.
Sad times.
Denis
 

Majic

New member
While it's sad to see Colt slowly slide under I applaud them for sticking to making the best product possible to the bitter end rather than putting out a cheap copy of what they used to make. Other companies cheapen their products to stay in business only to have their fans b#*ch and moan at what's offered.
Unless the prices now go completely out of my reach I will still buy Colt firearms and will always be a fan.
 

MADISON

New member
No more Double action Colts

No more Double action Colts
If this is true, the PYTHON....is no more.
With all the competition to make a TOP OF THE LINE 1911, how can Colt survive?
They quit making their single actions and then sued a company for making them. Within the last 30 years, it took a $50.00 trigger job go get the Python to function like it should be.
 

GrantCunningham

New member
Sadly, for those of us who deal with Colt on a somewhat regular basis, this doesn't come as a shock.

Just a few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to talk with several people at Colt - including the Custom Shop - about the future of the Python. They told me that there were no plans to produce any through 2006, and that the topic of revolvers hadn't even come up in discussions for 2007 and beyond.

Over the last year there had been consistent rumors that Colt was producing revolvers in small quantities in the Custom Shop, that they were going to reintroduce various revolvers at various times, and other such speculation. Some of us urged restraint as we secretly hoped the rumors were true; unfortunately, as this article shows, hope can no longer spring eternal.
 

the_oklahombre

New member
I'm sorry to hear that. I wish Colt made a 1911 GI model around the same price as SA's GIs. They would sell them like there was no tomorrow. Why buy a springfield when you can get a colt for the same price?
 

Wildalaska

Moderator
I applaud them for sticking to making the best product possible to the bitter end rather than putting out a cheap copy of what they used to make. Other companies cheapen their products to stay in business only to have their fans b#*ch and moan at what's offered.
Unless the prices now go completely out of my reach I will still buy Colt firearms and will always be a fan.

And thats essentially what I told Mark when I spoke to him last week....do what you do best...

There are folks who are alwys gonna go with basic quality no matter what the cost....Colt not only has the niche market for qulaity guns, they are the niche market for quality guns in there price range.......

I have customers that have 2 or three of every model :0:D

I wish Colt made a 1911 GI model around the same price as SA's GIs.

They could if they used cheap parts and made their frames and slides in the third world :)

WildsellsallhecangetAlaska
 

softailmomma

New member
No More Python??



I'm so totally crushed! I guess I better not sell the Python I just bought - kind of a "cowboy"(?) has ranch brandings around cylinder, I do need and want to purchase a vent rib (missing). Got it for $200. After my husband passed 2002, I, too quickly, sold all his trap and hunting guns, have NO bloody idea why I put my 1973 python, blued, 6in out there. Been looking ever since. Damn, damn, damn! So, all I got left is this new python, match pistol colt 1911a .45 acp, essex frame. Got used to shooting a semi, but I sure would like to find a 73 .... I'm calling Colt tomorrow - how dare they! I'd almost consider selling my 91 custom harley softail ...... Mmmmmmm NO!

Gentlemen: this python I have has a serial number of 16385. Can anyone help in its year, et al?? We'll just have to have a candle lit funeral type for our loss - for the whole bloody essence of our beautifully loved revolver. DTFR - yesh........
 

DPris

Member Emeritus
Ranch brands around the cylinder? The barrel ventilated rib is missing?
Are you sure it's a Python?
If it is, and if somebody's ground off the rib, you'll need a new barrel.
Denis
 

Doug.38PR

Moderator
SHOOT!!:mad: And I was told, straight from the Colt's mouth, (at the NRA gun show in Houston last year) that Pythons would be back in production this year.
Minimum wage and such laws really put pressure everywhere and make things go up.

Like everyone else, they could move the factory to a third world dungheap and make them for cheap laber, but heck....bahhh...If I say anymore this post might be transfered to the Legal and Political forum.
 
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