IMR 4064 Failure to Ignite

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Chipperman

New member
This is a long story that I will try to make short.

Last week I opened a brand new 8lb jug of IMR 4064 to make up some 7.5x53.5 rounds. Using Federal large rifle primers I made up some rounds and went to the range.
*click*. Nothing

Today I made up some new ones using CCI 34 primers. Still nothing. Click, no bang.
I also made up some rounds with H4895 which worked perfectly with both primer types.

The first day it was about 20 degrees out, today was about 30. I have heard that 4064 can be temperature sensitive, but I did not expect complete failure to fire. I emptied one of the rounds out and took a lighter to it. It did burn but took a while to light and burned VERY slowly.

Did I get a bad jug? I've never used 4064 before so have no experience with it. I paid about $240 for it so I will be very displeased if it's bad. I know it's not old because I bought it the day it came in from the distributor.
 
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Chipperman

New member
I figured I would get some input from here first about other peoples' experiences. I don't want to call IMR sounding like a jerk if this is typical.
 
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Reloadron

New member
Been using IMR4064, like many here, for decades and never had a problem in sub freezing temperatures using standard or magnum large and small rifle primers. Never had a problem. Pull a bullet and inspect the powder, it should be obvious if the primer did in fact dentonate. Normally just a primer bang will get a bullet out of the case mouth. You made no mention of the load data?

Call or email IMR. The contact phone number is on the label. They will want the lot number which is also on the container. They may also want to know where you bought the powder.

Ron
 
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gwpercle

New member
Save the powder and call them ... I'm sure they will want to look into it and test the powder ... may be a problem with content or coating .
20 and 30 degrees is cold but not so cold it would cause problems ...
keep the primers too ... if the primer would have ignited you should have seen some hint of it sparking ... unburned powder or something .
The primers may be a part of the puzzle and don't rule them out just yet .
Keep us posted on developments !
Gary
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
Been using 4064 since the 70s, never had any issues with ignition even below zero.

CALL IMR, explain what happened, give them all the information they ask for. It's possible (likely, actually) that they will want you to send the powder back so they can test it. Following their instructions, do so.

When things go wrong (and not just with powder) it is important to let the maker KNOW it happened, with all the hows & whys you can provide.

Nobody can fix a problem they don't know is going on...,.

Good Luck and please, do let us know how things turn out.
 
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Mal H

Staff
Out of curiosity, I just burned about 30 grains of IMR 4064. It burned vigorously with a bright and tall orange flame and took about 2 seconds. The temp here is 40 deg. F.

Sounds like you got a bad batch. Was the jug sealed when you first opened it? What does it smell like? (compare the smell with another IMR stick powder like 4895 - they should smell similar)
 
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tangolima

New member
If the primer ignites you should hear something. Not quite a normal bang, but definitely audible. The energy from the priming compound will probably push the projectile into the bore, creating a squib.

If you absolutely didn't hear anything, it was probably not a powder issue. Primer not fully seated perhaps.

Primer not fully seated causes misfires. Primer not fully seated causes slam fires. How does it work?

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
C

Chipperman

New member
I purposefully omitted some information in the initial post for two reasons. One was to shorten it, and the other was to help prevent derailing my question with extraneous details. But it sounds like like more detail is requested at this point.

The rifle in question is a Schmidt-Rubin 1889 which is new to me. There are no available factory rounds so reloading for it is required. I reloaded once-fired PPU brass. Initially I used Federal large rifle primers (the same box has been used to load other cartridges without issue). The bullets were 147 gr and 220 gr with powder charges of 34-38 grains. The primers appeared to have ignited normally when I pulled them. The 4064 was a little clumped together after attempted firing but when the powder was moved around, it broke apart to where it grossly appeared the same as what came out of the jug. It's possible that the clumping was just from case lube causing them to stick together. The powder does not smell rancid to me, and it was sealed when I bought it about 2-3 months ago.

The rounds that had CCI primers were exactly the same in terms of primer and powder appearance after trying to fire them. The rounds I loaded with 4895 fired normally.

So I used the same brass, same batch of primers (Fed and CCI), same Dillon lube, same press (Dillon 750), same bullets. The powder was the only variable. The powder charges were measured and placed in the cases individually so there is not even a variable of a powder dispenser.

Everything is stored in my heated gun room.

Sounds like nobody else has had major issues with 4064 which was my main question. If IMR wants the powder back, how exactly would I do that with no HAZMAT license?
 
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Shadow9mm

New member
Chipperman said:
I purposefully omitted some information in the initial post for two reasons. One was to shorten it, and the other was to help prevent derailing my question with extraneous details. But it sounds like like more detail is requested at this point.

The rifle in question is a Schmidt-Rubin 1889 which is new to me. There are no available factory rounds so reloading for it is required. I reloaded once-fired PPU brass. Initially I used Federal large rifle primers (the same box has been used to load other cartridges without issue). The bullets were 147 gr and 220 gr with powder charges of 34-38 grains. The primers appeared to have ignited normally when I pulled them. The 4064 was a little clumped together after attempted firing but when the powder was moved around, it broke apart to where it grossly appeared the same as what came out of the jug. It's possible that the clumping was just from case lube causing them to stick together. The powder does not smell rancid to me, and it was sealed when I bought it about 2-3 months ago.

The rounds that had CCI primers were exactly the same in terms of primer and powder appearance after trying to fire them. The rounds I loaded with 4895 fired normally.

So I used the same brass, same batch of primers (Fed and CCI), same Dillon lube, same press (Dillon 750), same bullets. The powder was the only variable. The powder charges were measured and placed in the cases individually so there is not even a variable of a powder dispenser.

Everything is stored in my heated gun room.

Sounds like nobody else has had major issues with 4064 which was my main question. If IMR wants the powder back, how exactly would I do that with no HAZMAT license?
Click to expand...
Do you wet or dry tumble? What is your lube removal process? Perhaps the powder/primer got contaminated.

Also you could try burning some like Mah H did.
 
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Reloadron

New member
The 4064 was a little clumped together after attempted firing but when the powder was moved around, it broke apart to where it grossly appeared the same as what came out of the jug.
Click to expand...

That says a lot. The powder simply failed to ignite. If there was no risk of contamination then that is strange. I saw this symptom once before with rounds I loaded in 257 Weatherby with VihtaVuori N-160. My cases had moisture and contamination in them. The primers went off, the powder at the primers clumped together and I could separate it just as you described. I would still call IMR and get their take. My money is on contamination in your cases somehow.

Ron
 
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PA-Joe

New member
Did the primer fire? Did a bullet get stuck in the barrel? Does the powder have an odd smell? Did you buy the powder recently from a retailer? Does it have a date stamp?

This is a good overall powder so it should have gone off.
 
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Mal H

Staff
PA-Joe all those questions were answered in post # 13.

But, this one wasn't:
It's possible that the clumping was just from case lube causing them to stick together.
Click to expand...
There should be no case lube at all inside the case at any time during the entire reloading process. Was that just a supposition, or do you really think lube may have clumped the powder together?
 
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T. O'Heir

New member
"...If the primer ignites you should hear something..." Yep. A very loud CRACK at the very least.
Call Hodgdon. IMR is one of their brands. They'll likely ask how old the keg is by its lot number and if it was sealed when you opened it.
https://hodgdon.com/company/contact-us/?_ga=2.106387907.1134192691.1615999222-37023864.1615999222
CCI 34 primers are just magnum primers, but since you tested with 2 powders and 2 brands of primer, and one powder worked, it sounds like the powder was wet or otherwise contaminated.
"...in from the distributor..." With the Covid panic causing massive shortages, that doesn't mean it's not old. Doesn't mean it was stored properly before you got it either.
 
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NoSecondBest

New member
I’ve loaded for over fifty years and I’ve had something similar happen twice before, and both times it was the same bottle of 3031 powder. I had the primers go off and could barely hear them. Upon pulling the bullets I found the powder clumped together in the case. Problem turned out to be too much empty space in the case and the powder migrated away from the primer. Apparently the distance between the primer and the powder didn’t allow enough heat from the powder to properly ignite the powder. Try using a magnum primer and see if that helps. If not, use a powder that fills the case better.
 
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