Improving reliability/accuracy of a gas piston AR

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zombie237

New member
Hello all,

I have a question that I was hoping someone might be able to shed some light on. I recently acquired a gas piston AR and I was wondering if there’s any aftermarket internals that may improve the rifle performance further. I’ve been reading about heavier buffers and springs and such and I’m looking to make the rifle as accurate and reliable as humanly possible. A lot of the information I’ve found addresses the buffers and springs in DI setups but since the piston AR I have isn’t incredibly old I haven’t really been able to find any information on it. I went through the search function here a few times, but have been unable to find any mechanical information to justify or negate the benefits of changing internal parts on a gas piston AR. If I didn’t use correct terms for internal parts and I overlooked something that’s already here, I apologize beforehand.

Also, if there’s any other internal that may help the accuracy and reliability of a gas piston AR, I’m all ears. Thanks for any help you may be able to provide. The rifle by the way is the Ruger SR556 (I know there are better piston rifles, I just like that one) and have taken it out with 2,000 rounds through it with zero issues and no “carrier tilt” as I’d read from previous postings on the potential issues in the Ruger 556. Again, im greatly appreciative of any help anyone may be able to offer, thanks.
 
B

Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
I would do whatever the manufacturer recommends and keep shooting it. At this point, the SR556 has been out for less than a year so there is probably not a good base of knowledge. That is one of the downsides of being an early adopter on new technology of any kind.

Since every piston manufacturer has their own proprietary parts and system, what works on one gas piston AR may or may not be helpful to you. I can tell you that personally, I have modified quite a few firearms over the years in the search for "enhanced reliablity" and more often than not, the modifications decreased reliability compared to the stock configuration. I'm a big fan of leaving the firearm as stock as possible unless you have a clearly identified problem.
 
Z

zombie237

New member
Bart, thanks I appreciate your point of view, and I can agree with that sentiment as all my other stuff is stock and will remain so, I was prompted on this issue by an article I read on the buffer tube/spring adjustment on a DI system and wondered if it would help/hurt my setup. Again, thanks for the info.

Jimro, oiled/lubed as instructed in Army for many, many years:D
 
B

Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
I was prompted on this issue by an article I read on the buffer tube/spring adjustment on a DI system and wondered if it would help/hurt my setup.
Click to expand...

If it is the one by Mike Pannone discussing 2,400 rounds with no lubrication through a Bravo Company M4, then you need to understand that the spring/buffer he recommended is limited to a very specific rifle (As close to a military M4 carbine as you can get). That spring/buffer combination could cause problems with other direct gas ARs and who knows what it would do with a piston rifle.
 
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Jimro

New member
Changing out the springs is usually a "won't hurt might help" option.

But why not run a bunch of ammo through your rifle and see if it needs those parts changed out?

Jimro
 
C

Creeper

New member
I'm not too familiar with the Ruger product, so I don't know if this is easily doable, but... you might want to try shutting off the gas or disabling/removing the gas piston.
Yes, it would turn it into a single-shot rifle, but it might improve your bench accuracy considerably by eliminating rifle movement (from that element) during the shot cycle.
I've done this to several gas guns, that are used primarily for shooting from a benchrest, by fitting an adjustable valve, or simple block-off in the gas block. I've also done it to an assortment of piston operated semi-auto rifles thru various means... all with marked improvements in benchrest accuracy.

I'm not suggesting you make any permanent modifications to the gun... just something to try if accuracy is a high priority and the gun can easily be returned to a stock condition.

As to your reference to reliability... if you've had "2,000 rounds through it with zero issues", then it appears your concerns are somewhat unfounded at this time.

Cheers,
C
 
Z

ZeSpectre

New member
I'm not too familiar with the Ruger product, so I don't know if this is easily doable, but... you might want to try shutting off the gas or disabling/removing the gas piston.
Click to expand...

The SR-665 gas valve has a "0" setting that turns it into (essentially) a straight pull bolt gun.
 
Z

zombie237

New member
Jimro, I’ve been going out every weekend I can to run what I got through it (seems it runs through almost as fast as I buy it) and haven't really had any issues. I guess the accuracy/reliability article Bart referred to was what prompted my curiosity. The accuracy is pretty good, it's really getting used to the weight of the rifle really at this point.

Bart, that's the article, very interesting read and I emailed the author as to whether or not he had any experiences in improving gas piston rifles to date, still waiting on reply from that one.

Ze, I read your review, really detailed and enjoyed reading. I've had about 2,000 rounds through so far, but with limited experience with only the Army's M16/M4, I'm not really a foremost expert of rifle mechanics/parts and specifics. I'm still learning the engineering aspect of the rifle's internals and as I said really enjoyed the detail in your review. I have had no issues at all and no signs of wear in the dreaded "carrier tilt" area I'd read about in previous postings from others in the months leading up to my purchase of the Ruger. I did order the Troy front vertical foregrip, a different Troy flash suppressor and am changing out the rear sight to another version of the Troy rear sight. Other than that, the rest of the rifle is stock and the changes are really cosmetic. Internals is of interest to me, not only to potentially improve reliability and accuracy, but to increase general mechanical understanding. If you have any more insight on the 556, I'd appreciate it, thanks again.
 
C

Creeper

New member
The SR-665 gas valve has a "0" setting that turns it into (essentially) a straight pull bolt gun.
Click to expand...

Excellent. A thoughtful addition by Ruger.

By using the '0' setting you mention, you would be allowed the advantage of experimentation, by "single-loading" handloads that might otherwise not fit or feed reliably in the box magazine.
I've encountered ARs in the past where, by being able to produce cartridges optimized for the chamber rather than magazine fit, I was able to reduce average group size by as much as 50%.

Cheers,
C
 
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zombie237

New member
Creeper, my concerns are mostly as a result of reading the initial issues in my pre-purchase phase that I was told Ruger had addressed via email from one of their reps. A lot of people seemed to have issues initially with certain things, most notably carrier tilt, to which I have had no issues or excessive wear to date (knock on wood). I personally have nothing but good things to say about the rifle but I know a lot of people who don’t care for the gas system on the AR and I understand the argument but my hope is to find someone that may have had the rifle longer than I and seen/experienced issues that I may have overlooked. Maybe finding if someone changed something internally that improved an already amazing rifle as far as I’m concerned.

As I stated previously, I don’t have a lot to go on as I only really ever messed with Army’s M16/M4s and I don’t really count the internals and reliability of those weapons as they’ve been used and abused for years and not all unit armorers clean/service weapons the same. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the info and I’m still learning a lot about the gas system mechanically but I’ll give the setting adjustments a lot more research time to check accuracy at each setting and see if that helps. Thanks again.
 
C

Creeper

New member
I now completely understand your perspective and goals Zombie.

I'm a competitive benchrest shooter, so any time I get a semiauto, my first goal is to obtain absolute accuracy within the limits of the guns design.
Once I've achieved that thru handloading, trigger work and other means, I begin to modify those parameters... typically by starting with the disabling of the cycling system.

After I'm satisfied that I've drug out the last drop of accuracy attainable... I sell the gun and move on to the next "project". :D

I'd love to see, handle and measure the insides of a Ruger... from an design/engineering perspective.
Although most rifles are not easily or dramatically improved upon from their basic design, the gas piston AR concept has so many variations that it would be a great education to see how different engineers/designers/companies have created their own unique (or "borrowed") solutions for relatively common issues.

As an example, I've done a bit of reading, at various sites, since my involvement in this thread, and find the negative comments regarding the adjustable gas regulation to be surprising.
I see, from my perspective, the Ruger as having an advantage over other designs, in this regard.

Anyway... enjoy your process of learning and understanding. Being on the "cutting edge" has it's ups and downs, but it's always an interesting journey.

Cheers,
C
 
C

Creeper

New member
The one internal part that I'm considering is the POF "Roller Cam Pin" but I haven't yet collected enough information to decide if it's a great idea or just a gimmick.
Click to expand...

  • Reduces friction and drag of the bolt carrier.
  • The roller cam pin rolls as the action moves.
  • The roller cam pin NP3 coated and the body is
  • Mil-spec hard chrome plated. This allows the pin to operate without the need to lube.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I suppose you could look at it from opposed perspectives. The positive attributes are already outlined. The negative perspective would question it.
  • Can it fail due to the fact that it's comprised of two parts staked together?
  • Do the perceived benefits outweigh that potential?
  • Has it been sufficiently tested to determine it's reliability?

From a realistic perspective... are the advantages listed "real" advantages, or the the makers perception of a need, and based on what known facts?

Cheers,
C
 
Z

zombie237

New member
Creeper, most of my hang-ups I answered in pre-purchase, I decided out of the box for the price I got the rifle for, it was well worth it and no real additions were necessary. I figured if I can’t shoot with iron sights, and EOTech ain’t gonna make it better. I wanted to be as close to accurate as I possibly could. I’m in about a 3” group at 300 yards and I my personal goal is to get into the size of a quarter. MOST of my issues are control as it’s been a while since I messed with the M4, but it’s getting back into muscle memory.

I’d be interested in any small change that increases reliability and accuracy but I don’t, like was already stated, want to completely mess with internals and gut the rifle. I feel as stock as internals as possible is where the rifle is at best and if something aftermarket is placed for me, it is going to be personal cosmetic reasons or something that doesn’t severely jack up the action of the original parts. The action on the 556 for me is amazing and recoil is nothing compared to what I recall. The front end of the 556 is heavier than what I’m used to so the rifle doesn’t move too much at all. It makes for easier follow up shots and reacquiring target is better. Distance on the 556 is about the same as the M4 I was used to, but I’d like to understand the mechanics and outside factors to not only improve accuracy and reliability of the rifle, but improve my shooting.

In your post on refining weapons, I don’t know that I could part with something with that much effort into it, but I’m new to this so eventually I might better understand your love for refining firearms into art. Currently, my favorite hobby (makes me feel as calm as Bob Ross when he was painting) is to strip all my firearms down and clean them incredibly and take my time. It’s my version of reading and keeps me Zen at all times.
 
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