I'm skeptical

4

4V50 Gary

Staff
I was reading Nicolai Linin's book, Free Fall, in which Linin wrote that in the Second Chechen War, his unit captured a gun loaded with mercury filled boolits. Never heard of it. From page 256:

"The bullets were polished to mirror shine, the tips painted black. These were very expensive special cartridges, it was definitely not the stuff meant for the army; the body was steel, covered with a light coat of varnish, and the tip was metal so it could go through Kevlar or iron the same as air. The matrix was liquid mercury, which made its trajectory extra precise; most important, the gunpowder charge was stronger than normal, because it had to create enough force to propel the bullets,which were much heavier than normal ones.

We didn't have ammunition like that in our possession, only the Arabs did. it came fromt he black market, through ties with America. People said that a special company in Texas manufactured them, and that they cost five dollars each. That type of projectile was famous and feared among the soldiers, because there was no bullet-proof vest that could withstand their force. In military slang they were called 'bye-bye mommas' -- if a round like that hit you were done for."
Click to expand...

I know that we had AP that were painted black. I doubt if anyone here in Estados Unidos makes steel cased boolits. That's something the Rooskies do. Mercury, being heavier than lead, will pack more punch but the bit about the gunpowder charge sounds like nonsense. Unless the gun is modified or better yet, designed for a heavier charge, shooting heavy loads will accelerate the wear and cause parts failure or in the worse case, a Kaboom. Also, if the boolits were made in Texas, why haven't we heard of them? Even if it was just the boolit and not the whole cartridge, wouldn't production of this be hard to conceal? OSHA requirements, EPA and all that. Export of military grade munitions would be regulated by the State Department, wouldn't it?

Thoughts?
 
T

TXAZ

New member
If the mercury in bullet is well sealed, you would have a 20%denser bullet than lead.
The only higher density projectiles would likely be made of DU or Tungsten.
There are denser metals but other factors generally rule them out.
 
Last edited:
D

DaleA

New member
Bartholomew Roberts - that's a very interesting link you posted. I was going to mention "Day of the Jackal" but that and a whole LOT more are covered in the link you posted. Congratulations on your memory too, the link was from a couple of years ago.
 
4

4V50 Gary

Staff
Bartholmew Roberts - thanks for the link. The book in question finally reached our shores this year. It's been out in the UK for several.
 
S

Skans

Active member
I think in the '80's someone actually produced mercury filled handgun bullets - Mercore? My guess is that the little bit of Mercury they put in the bullets made little or no difference from lead - just more toxic and messier. Plus, mercury reacts with lead and will work to dissolve it over time.
 
D

doofus47

New member
I read that in "day of the jackel" as well.

I guess my question to the boolit/physics experts on the forum would be: if the energy that accelerates a bullet from 0 to whatever when the trigger is pulled is equal to or slightly less than the energy of a bullet hitting a target and stopping, wouldn't the mercury "spill out the back" on launch? Or could you use a TMJ to support the back of the bullet on launch? Or would the gasses from the propellant do that well enough/long enough?

Mercury-filled bullets seems like quite an engineering project to me. maybe it's not.

Just curious.
 
S

Skans

Active member
Mercury and lead are closer in weight than are lead and copper, lead and steel, etc. There are many kinds of bullets made of different kinds of metal - doesn't seem to affect them. The fact that it is liquid - eh, I don't think that means anything when it is encapsulated inside of a solid slug. My bet is that a mercury core bullet has about the same effect as a solid core lead bullet - except given a little time, the mercury will eat the lead causing it to leak.
 
S

SHE3PDOG

New member
A quick google search reveals that some people put mercury in hollow points and cover it with wax. The theory is very smilar to that of a conical charge. When the bullet slams into someone, it creates a scondary projectile as the hollow point expands.

I don't know how well it works, and I higly doubt it helps with accuracy at all. I'm also thinking it isn't something that's mass produced by any company. He also specifically states that the tip was metal, so the only way I could see it working is if it were a metal lighter and weaker than lead.
 
L

lcpiper

New member
I can't say if there is any veracity to this article at all.

But if I were to get hypothetical and say that someone had asked me to make such a bullet and specified requirements for great (armor) penetration and a mercury core (for whatever purpose). I would approach the mercury part with this in mind,
Mercury becomes solid at -40° F (-40° C)
Click to expand...
.
 
S

SHE3PDOG

New member
I'm pretty sure that it still wouldn't be able to dig its way through a ceramic plate even if the mercury does act as a secondary projectile.
 
A

asmith

New member
I know this is probably a myth, but I read one time that it was rumored that Annie Oakley used mercury loaded bullets for shooting glass rods in half. Sort of a mini -shotgun load.....:eek:
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
What you are reading appears to be a soldier's account of what they found, and what they thought it was. Soldiers say a lot of things. And once some BS comment gets in the pipe, it stays there, often nearly for ever.

Look at the stories from Viet Nam, about the M16 (and other things) for instance. Most of them are a small real fact, covered with a thick coat of BS. I've heard them all, I've actually been instructed in some of them by various NCOs and Officers. Well meaning (looking out for the troops) but tragically uninformed that what they were passing on was myth and legend, more than fact.

I think that's what you have here. Plus the possibility of translation of the native language idioms literally.

First, the description, while fairly precise, is a bit vague about the metal tip. All bullets have metal tips (lead is a metal). This metal tip is something that penetrates, implying its a different metal than regular bullet metal (jacket).
Quite possible. Not common but possible.

"People said" they came from the US on the black market. Had mercury inside, more powerful, etc, etc,etc...

This is the typical kind of BS that gets passed around in bull sessions and becomes firmly entrenched as military urban legend. With a little thought, you can come up with a good story about almost anything.

Laquered steel case ammo is not a US thing. It is a (former) COMBLOC nation thing. "Pyotr, you say it comes from Amerika, but it looks like ours, Amerikans use brass for their bullets!" "Da, Ivan, but Amerikans are tricky, they make it look like ours so you can't tell it comes from Amerika!" And so it becomes established "fact" that the ammo comes from the USA.

You can make bullets with mercury cores. You can make ones that don't leak. You can even makes ones with both mercury and lead and keep the two separate. You CAN do lots of things. Why would you?

Ok, heavier then lead, fine. so is tungsten. But Mercury makes the bullet "explode" when it hits! Ok, expand "explosively" (don't know if this is what really happens, but its what everybody thinks happens, so I'll give you this one, for now)

What do you get from the explosive expansion? A devastating wound, right? And a devastating wound sewn with toxic mercury. Very lethal. Mercury is poisonous. You die. That's the common belief, right?

But what happens to your penetration when the bullet blows up from the deceleration of the mercury inside? Rather tough to get both armor defeating and explosive expansion in the right order. Not a trivial task with small arms bullets.

Mercury bullets are an assassin's tool in the mind of a fiction writer. Lots of people believe this, and a few have tried it. Never heard where it worked like it does in the movies.

I think what you have here is a story about something unusual they found, not definitive proof of what it actually was.

Show me one of these "$5 each armor piercing mercury filled custom made in America for the Arabs to kill us with" bullets (preferably with a cut away showing what's really inside) and I'll take a long step in believing. Otherwise...not so much.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top