If you had a Model 27...

[BlueTrain]

Or a Model 28 large frame S&W .357 magnum that you wanted to replace, what would you get? Of course, it would be unlikely you would want to replace it because it wore out but more likely because, well, you happen to be between owning one, in a manner of speaking.

I have had both a 5-inch and 6 1/2 inch barrel Model 27 and a 6-inch barrel Model 28. The five inch barrel was probably the better one and it happened to be the newest. At the moment I am without one and feel like I ought to get one before I get too old. Only S&W doesn't make them anymore. What is a body to do?

The funny thing to me is how they make them bigger to make them stronger, then they start putting more holes in the cylinder because there is all that room there--which makes it weaker. Back to square one.

I might have to limit myself to the used gun department, which I usually have to do anyway. Too bad there isn't some large army replacing all their large frame .357s and selling them off. I guess I ought to consider other calibers as well, either the .45 Colt or the .44. Have a good supply of cartridges for both already. Even a single action might not be a bad choice and the Ruger Bisley is a nice big revolver. Don't care for their super models nor the oversized models from S&W either, the ones that come with slings. Overall, however, larger revolvers have been crowded off the shelves where I go to pay my respects. I usually end up looking at Colt automatics anyway, which might be why I don't have those Model 27s.

I don't suppose it is problem many of you ever face but what would you do?

 

[BillCA]

One thing you should do is find a gun shop that has a fair number of used guns for sale on a regular basis. Then look for someone to sell off their late husband's M28 that was a nightstand gun or safe queen. That's how I ended up with a nice 4" Model 28.

As far as buying a new gun, not too many of S&W's "new" versions tickle my fancy. All of the new 627's are butt-ugly to me. The 327 is marginally okay, except I'm not a fan of an alloy frame for that size of a .357. The 619/620 are L-Frames and might work.

I am tempted by their release of slightly updated older designs as the Model 21 (.44 spl) and Model 22 (.45ACP) including a new 1917 wheelgun are appealing. And they're releasing 3" barreled M24's and M25's.

Unfortunately, my inspection of some recent .41 Mag M57 Mountain Guns revealed a few problems that should not have slipped past their QC dept. One had a cylinder that rubbed the forcing cone when opening/closing the cylinder. Another exhibited a heavy trigger on two chambers (the extractor notches were buggered up on visual inspection). One .44 Mountain gun showed some severe scraping on the hammer's left side and the trigger's right side. So my concern is that any new gun needs to be carefully inspected before purchasing.

 

[BlueTrain]

I appreciate the thoughts and comments. Mind you, I seem to have already owned everything worth owning. Well, almost, anyway. Of those I have owned, not all were totally satisfactory, speaking here only of the revolvers, but most were.

I had in mind only large (N) or medium-large (L) frame models or Rugers, Colt revolvers being rather scarce on the ground at the moment. Most of the really older revolvers are either priced way out of possibility (as are a lot of the new ones) or they are in rough shape, not that that has always been a factor. Medium and small frame revolvers are due for a different thread.

I have seen the new Models 21 and 25 and very attractive they are, which I commented on in a different thread. I really don't care for the shorter barrels and fixed sights, however and even a 4-inch tapered barrel in an N frame doesn't have a good balance to me. The old long barreled Model 24 & 624 were very nicely balanced for the barrel length. Anyway, they're too expensive in the first place. I don't remember the last time I saw a Model 1917 S&W but that would fit the bill perfectly. I wonder if .45 auto-rim cases are still around. The Mountain Revolvers would have the same balance issue but otherwise are awfully attractive.

Another good model, also on the rare side, were the models 581 and 681 but the adjustable sighted models are probably more flexible as well as more common. I expect the Ruger GP-100 would be as heavy a revolver as you would ever feel necessary but I don't think I've as much as touched one.

 

[629 shooter]

I have never owned a Model 27 and should have bought one when they were still widley available and relatively affordable. I never have seen one in a gunshop or even a large gun show in many years.

I don't know of any current production revolver that would be comparable to an older pinned barrel recessed cylinder 27. The 27s found on the online auctions usually command incredible prices these days. I am hoping to run into one of those great "once in a lifetime deals" that everyone seems to be able to find. "Yeah , this old retired guy did not shoot this vintage LNIB 27 and sold it to me for $300"

I guess the only revolver that could replace a 27 would be another 27 or 28. I would even be happy to find a nice 19 at the moment , but they are not nearly as robust as the 27. Owning one of each would be great!

 

[Hammer It]

Hello 629 Shooter & Blue Train
The Model 27 S&W revolver is the Grand son to the Famous Registered Magnum S&W brought out in 1935. It is the Highest Class S&W revolver that was ever Built, to me. They are the Only Model to have the Top strap Cross hatch checkerd, and full Blown Target Options were available at no extra cost on this model. Many were shipped in a factory Presentation case as shown, and you had a choice of trigger's, Hammer's, Sights and Grips.
I have had about 5 different model 27's over the years all with 6" barrels. Some were blued and a few were Nickel plated and I Picked them up at a decent Price so either swapped into Other revolver's I wanted or sold them out right. Bad Part is, Once you own one, You always have a lust for another one and find your self Hunting another one. They have really escalated in price fiercely in the Past few years, But that does not mean a deal still can't be found occasionally, if you are very Patient. Last Fall I was at a small Gun show, and Bumped into a dealer buddy that had this model 27 with him. he was reluctant to set it out due to a Pitted rusty cylinder from the previous owner leaving it in a Leather Holster for a full year without checking on it. Leather has a drastic effect on Bluing because of the chemicals used in the Tanning process, and if left in one for a while they will destroy a revolver's finish. The cylinder seemed to be the Only effected part of this classic 27-2 Made back in the Mid 1970's as the rest of the Bluing Looked super, with No apparent wear. I noticed it Locked up very tight and had the shorter 5" barrel along with a standard trigger, Hammer and a Baughman quick draw front sight. It was evident to me the original Purchaser had bought this one to carry often but it did not show evidence of any carry bluing wear, only had the cylinder Pitted and rusted heavy. To make a long story short, I purchased it for $225.00 and sent the cylinder in for a rebluing Job. It came back Like brand new and matches the rest of the revolver perfect. My refinisher owed me a favor so you are Looking at a revolver that cost me just $225.00. I have learned the hard way in the past that these deals are not all that common, so decided to keep this one. It came with it's original target grip's shown in the revolver only Pictures and I had an extra 6" Presentation case Lying around so reworked it making a 5" model out of it, and switched the original grips for a set of early Coke Bottle style diamond grips I had on hand as well, completing my model 27 project gun..Regards, Hammer It.

 

[BlueTrain]

Nice photos. You hit the nail on the head about having had one and then always wanting another one. That pretty much describes a lot of guns I have owned and is precisely the intended theme of this thread.

One of the Model 27s I owned was a pre-war registered .357 Magnum, which of course was not a Model 27 at all. It had magna-style grips and a 6 1/2 barrel (maybe just six). The front sight had one of those little mirrors at the back of the base but the first couple of inches of the barrel looked like it had been left in a can of water overnight. Pity.

They have never appeared to have been common and I never thought they or most any other desirable gun was relatively affordable, at least new. And for that matter, most of the same guns are expensive used, too, and scarce as well. In fact, I wonder why you don't see all that many of the more commonly produced revolvers on dealer shelves (used), like pre-model 10 M&Ps and Colt OP's.

 

[Hammer It]

One of the Model 27s I owned was a pre-war registered .357 Magnum, which of course was not a Model 27 at all. It had magna-style grips and a 6 1/2 barrel (maybe just six). The front sight had one of those little mirrors at the back of the base but the first couple of inches of the barrel looked like it had been left in a can of water overnight. Pity.

Hello Bluetrain
The revolver you spoke of here was Indeed the famous Registered Magnum. In 1935 S&W came out with this revolver and the brand new then .357 Cartridge. They feared the Bad Guys would get hold of this new Powerhouse Cartridge so made all their revolver's chambered in it a custom Order only item. if you ordered one they in turn sent you a card to fill out and return to the factory and in return you got a Registered Magnum certificate from them. They were made from 1935-1939 at which time they ceased requiring them to be Registered and the Later ones were Called Unregistered Magnums which were the exact same revolver design. They were built on the 5 screw-N-frame and could have been ordered with any Barrel combinations from 3-1/2"-8". You also could order what Grips, Hammer, Trigger, sights and finsh you wanted as they were considered a custom ordered revolver. After 1939 they made the Barrels standard issue as all the Other Options. The sight you speak of was an after market sight S&W used made by the King Gun Sight Corperation. It was a reflector sight with a small Mirror used to reflect the Light from the front sight to allow better sight Transition. Right now these Registered Magnums are bringing an average of $5000.00-10,000.00 depending on condition and what they have with them as the original certificates, Box's, tools and Factory Letter if it was applied for to show that gun was unaltered. Later the very same revolver was Known as the Pre-27. This was Before they used the common stamping in the crane area that started in 1957. After 1957 all cranes were stamped with the Model number 27 in them and continued to be with the dash series like the one shown which is a model 27-2 and as I said, a Grand Son to the Original Registered Magnum. Hammer It.

 

[629 shooter]

Hammer It , thanks for sharing the story and the fantastic pics of your 27! That is the kind of deal I wish I could run in to.

Your 27 is an immaculate revolver! There is nothing coming out of a Smith factory today that can match that!

 

[Ranger325]

Greetings,
How about the 3.5" M27?? They seem to very popular these days and is one of my very favorite Smiths. You've already had the longer barreled guns - maybe it's time for a change.

If you looking for an N Frame that's a little different, how about a S&W M25-2, .45ACP. Mine is one of the best shooting handguns I've owned has the beautiful lines of the large frame revolver.

Good luck...........................

Regards,

 

[Hammer It]

Hey Ranger 325
How about the shorter Mountain Gun Version model 25-13. These were a S&W stocking dealer special in 2006. I looked a long time for a target model 25 with the shorter 4" tube to no avail, so got this one instead. I Like mine it shoots real tight groups. Hammer It.

 

[Ranger325]

Very nice revolver Hammer, very nice indeed!! (great pics too!)
I'll have to keep it in mind for my next purchase....................

Regards,

 

[Hammer It]

I'll have to keep it in mind for my next purchase

Hello
Thanks for the Kind words, But I still am Lusting over a model 25 target revolver with a 4" tube.. Someday one will Pop up. Hammer It

 

[Mike Irwin]

I don't have any Model 27s, but I do have both 4" and 6" Model 28s.

I'm thinking seriously about selling the 6" Model 28, though, as I greatly prefer 4" guns, and I really really really want a 4" Model 25 in .45 Long Colt.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"They feared the Bad Guys would get hold of this new Powerhouse Cartridge so made all their revolver's chambered in it a custom Order only item."

No, not the case at all.

Remember, 1935 was the height of the Great Depression.

S&W's handgun sales had tanked (as had sales for most other manufacturers) and the company was sitting on huge stocks of frames and parts that had been made during the 1920s. In fact, they wouldn't get rid of a lot of those parts until production increased for World War II.

In any event, Phil Sharpe had been after S&W for some time to bring out a more powerful cartridge for the sporting handgun user. In other words, Sharpe wanted a handgun capable of killing critters on 4 hooves, feet, etc.

Sharpe and DB Wesson worked with Winchester to develop the cartridge, and some of the first testing was done by seeing how the cartridge performed on game animals. Some of Smith & Wesson's earliest advertising for the .357 Mag. showed DB Wesson with dead game animals.

Smith decided early on to go after the high-end user market. They were really the only people who were spending money in those times. In order to capture that market S&W needed to offer a gun that could be customized for an exaxting clientel. That's why if you add up all of the different permutations and made one gun in each possible configuration you'd have nearly 2,000 separate handguns (or was it 12,000?). It was a huge number.

Smith & Wesson NEVER expected the gun to sell as well as it did. It was nearly 1/2 again as expensive as Smith's most expensive handgun, and they were as shocked as anyone when in less than 1 year they received orders for more guns than they had expected to sell in 5 years.

While serial number 1 or 2 was presented to J. Edgar Hoover, S&W never had any serious illusions about selling these guns to law enforcement en masse. They were simply too expensive.

In fact, that police forces couldn't justify the cost of the Model 27 is the exact reason why the Model 28/Highway Patrolman was developed in the 1950s.


Remember, too, that in the 1930s, during the height of Prohibition, of then the only people with a lot of money were.... criminals.

The fact that the .357 Magnum was a custom item would have been absolutely no impediment to them at all.

 

[Hammer It]

In fact, that police forces couldn't justify the cost of the Model 27 is the exact reason why the Model 28/Highway Patrolman was developed in the 1950s. Remember, too, that in the 1930s, during the height of Prohibition, of then the only people with a lot of money were.... criminals.

Hello Mike
I agree with most of what you say here as it shadows what Roy Jinks wrote in his book entitled The history of S&W that is an excellent reference book. I have heard that there was concern of the Bank robber's getting hold of this new cartridge that was proved capible of going through a cast iron engine block from it's potential power compared to the then less powerful .38 special round. Many police agencies did purchase these Registered Magnums back then one of them being the Kansas City MO police department who received 87 of them for daily carry purposes, The Indianapolis Indiana Police took delivery of 15 of them with 5" barrels in 1937.The F.B.I. also purchased 174 of them and the Post Office even received 15 of them with a 5" barrel. I have never seen any criminals noted that were taken down to have a Registered Magnum as their carry weapon even if they did have all the money back then to Purchase one. Regards, Hammer It

 

[Mike Irwin]

Hammer,

I'm well familiar with the sales of registered magnums to a FEW police forces.

Note that I said that S&W never entertained illusions of selling the guns "en masse."

Fewer than 300 guns to police over roughly 4.5 years is a fraction of what S&W sold in the civilian market.

It's also quite telling that S&W originally estimated that fewer than 500 of these guns would be sold a year, and that most, if not all, of them would be single sales to individuals.

Remember, only a few years before S&W had addressed calls for a newer, more powerful round with its .38-44 Heavy Duty. And while it initially sold well, the Depression had slowed sale of those guns to a trickle.

Remember that the .38-44 round, espeically the "metal piercing" rounds by Remington Peters, had also proven to be capable of punching a hole in an engine block.


"I have never seen any criminals noted that were taken down to have a Registered Magnum as their carry weapon even if they did have all the money back then to Purchase one."

Neither have I, but that proves what, really? (Nothing)

It could, however, indicate many things...

1. Criminals who did obtain .357s were never caught with them.

2. Criminals never obtained .357s.

3. Criminals tried to obtain .357s but were caught before they could purchase or steal one.

4. Criminals didn't see the need for a more powerful handgun.

Ultimately, though, S&W developed and targeted the .357 at sport shooters, not police.


Finally, what I find to be truly amazing about all of this is that S&W even tackled the project when they did. In 1935 S&W was hurting badly, and sinking the kind of development money that they did into this project when they did is really astonishing.

 

[BlueTrain]

I have apparently owned too many guns because, while the pre-war .357 magnums were impressive, I have seen many other impressive handguns. Or perhaps it is just that many guns impress me. Whatever! Colt had some impressive handguns at the time as well, and some were as expensive as the S&W, though I couldn't say how many were ever sold. Although I had a .357 magnum for a time, I've never seen a Heavy Duty, an Outdoorsman or Colt Shooting Master except in the NRA museum.

There was also the .38 Super, which was considered hot stuff at the time.

 

[CarbineCaleb]

Hi Blue Train - Not quite sure what to tell you, as it sounds that you are familiar with the S&W lineup and don't like your options. I'll just share some thoughts since you did ask for input though...

I own a 4" 686P and like it very much - as an all-around revolver, there's none I'd rather have. It's double action, smooth operating, low maintenance, and more accurate than I am. The 4" L-Frame offers a carry option, which I wanted, but is still pretty comfortable and controllable. The rubber grips and stainless aren't as pretty as wood/blue I'd agree, but stainless is easy care, and the soft rubber grips are really nonslip, and soak up vibration and recoil very well. I appreciate beauty, but if I need to choose between that and function, it'll be function every time for me.

The day I bought that gun, I rented one just like it as well as the 6" 686P and the 5" 627 PC to help me choose. If I didn't really want the carry option, I'd have chosen the 6" 686P. The 627 PC was a fine revolver, but in my opinion the extra round was outweighed by the fact that I shot more accurately and got less muzzle rise out of the 6" 686P.

With the 6" 686P being also cheaper than the 627, that'd be my suggestion for you, or, since you seem to be a traditionalist, perhaps the standard 6-shot 686, also in the 6" barrel. It's hard to go wrong with a Smith & Wesson revolver.

By the way, I saw that you were concerned about strength of the higher cap revolver cylinders. I have read that the 7-shot 686P cylinder is actually *stronger* than the 6-shot 686 cylinder. The reason is that the bolt-stop notches are between chambers for greater strength rather than directly over chambers as they are in the 6-shot, where they are weakest. Speed loaders are readily available for the 686P. Of course an extra round could conceivably come in handy in a defense situation, so from a practical perspective, I think it's all upside with the 7-shooter.

 

[BigJimP]

I'd buy another model 27 in 6" ( but that's because I only have two of them now ...) and I need at least one more in a Nickel finish.

There are lots of model 27's around - and in very good to excellent condition or even unfired. When they are all gone ....... hell will freeze over or I'll just have to shoot my model 29's more ........ life is full of tough choices. But I must admit I do like the 6 shot 686 models as well, without the belly button lock, in 6" stainless .357 mag as well. It's a worthy substitute for a model 27 ( or almost worthy )......

 

[whitebb]

My Model 27-2 5" is near and dear to me. Picked it up for $200 last year, and it is perfect. If I was to "replace" it, a Colt Python would do it for me. Why? It is the only other .357 that I would really like to own. I have a bunch of others, all Smiths which are great, but I guess the Python is a Classic. (Like a 27)