If I buy a Kimber 84M Montana 308 or 338 Federal
- Thread starter ZeroJunk
- Start date
bamaranger
New member
.308
Hope you get the rifle. My vote is for .308. I like the concept of the .338 Fed, but am not sure about the lifespan of the ctg. One can always reload, and neck up .308 brass, but......
The .308 is plenty common w/ factory ammo available about everywhere. That could save a trip or hunt w/ a simple trip to town.
The Kimber Montana is on my wish list of rifles. I passed on a used , wood / blue steel Kimber a few years back and regret it to this day.
Hope you get the rifle. My vote is for .308. I like the concept of the .338 Fed, but am not sure about the lifespan of the ctg. One can always reload, and neck up .308 brass, but......
The .308 is plenty common w/ factory ammo available about everywhere. That could save a trip or hunt w/ a simple trip to town.
The Kimber Montana is on my wish list of rifles. I passed on a used , wood / blue steel Kimber a few years back and regret it to this day.
The .308 is more common and plenty capable of taking elk. The .338 Federal would be a better dedicated elk rifle but factory ammuniton isn't found just evreywhere and like bama stated if you reload not a problem. I'd stick to the .308 if you are only going to buy factory ammunition the elk can't tell the difference anyway.
bamaranger
New member
Hey.....
I didn't see the reference to elk in the OP, and I am not an elk hunter, but I would think with good bullets that a .308 would be plenty of elk medicine, so I'm still voting .308.
I didn't see the reference to elk in the OP, and I am not an elk hunter, but I would think with good bullets that a .308 would be plenty of elk medicine, so I'm still voting .308.
rodwhaincamo
New member
I am desiring to move to elk country, and so I've been looking into the all around big game cartridge from pronghorn to elk and black bear.
It has been stated by the "experts" that 1200-1500 ft/lbs is required for elk. The .308 Win has that with most boattails out past 400 yds.
In my opinion (and we know about those) anything .264 caliber and up should be sufficient with quality bullets. I finally settled on the .308 Win as the ideal big game cartridge to include elk using a 165 grn bonded/solid expanding bullet or better.
The .338 Fed would have a slight advantage as it uses a larger and heavier bullet with a bit more energy at the expense of a slightly more arched trajectory.
But I feel the .308 Win is plenty.
It has been stated by the "experts" that 1200-1500 ft/lbs is required for elk. The .308 Win has that with most boattails out past 400 yds.
In my opinion (and we know about those) anything .264 caliber and up should be sufficient with quality bullets. I finally settled on the .308 Win as the ideal big game cartridge to include elk using a 165 grn bonded/solid expanding bullet or better.
The .338 Fed would have a slight advantage as it uses a larger and heavier bullet with a bit more energy at the expense of a slightly more arched trajectory.
But I feel the .308 Win is plenty.
fisherman66
New member
The .308 makes more sense to me. Were this a dedicated medium range elk rig the 338 Fed might be a better choice, but as a multipurpose super light weight I'd prefer the .308 or even a 7-08. She's going to get your attention in any of these cartridges when you touch one off. The 7-08 would be the most comfortable and be quite capable of quickly killing elk with good bullets (I'm thinking monoliths like the TSX for elk).
I bought a Weatherby Vanguard years ago in .308 that has been superb in the accuracy dept - actually, all "departments". Yet that desire for more power nagged at me for years. I kicked around a .300 Weatherby, .325 WSM, and .338 Federal, but just could never convince myself why I really needed another rifle/caliber combo. I've taken four elk and a black bear with this rifle (among other things), and, a couple years ago just decided I didn't want or need another. I stick to 180 bullets (even for varmits...to cheap to keep resighting.) as it seems to shoot them the best, even with the 1/12 twist.
.308 is fine for elk, and it's a lot cheaper to practice with it - even if you do reload, as bullets for the .338 are more expensive, less diverse, and a bit tougher to find, than the .308.
One of the guys I hunt with bought the Kimber 84M a few years ago and he's been quite happy with it. Good choice!
.308 is fine for elk, and it's a lot cheaper to practice with it - even if you do reload, as bullets for the .338 are more expensive, less diverse, and a bit tougher to find, than the .308.
One of the guys I hunt with bought the Kimber 84M a few years ago and he's been quite happy with it. Good choice!
If you don't presently load either cartridge it's a tough choice. 338 Federal is an interesting cartridge but .308 is a stellar performer.
ZJ, you've given me an idea. I have a problem-child 30-06 that may need a new barrel. .338-06 is almost as intriguing as the .338 Federal.
Anybody can shoot a .308. Since you reload, don't mind forming brass and are intrigued by the .338, go for it!
ZJ, you've given me an idea. I have a problem-child 30-06 that may need a new barrel. .338-06 is almost as intriguing as the .338 Federal.
Anybody can shoot a .308. Since you reload, don't mind forming brass and are intrigued by the .338, go for it!
"The 308 shoots flatter"--- Not exactly. Below is the chart for the 180 grain 308 partition, the 210 grain 338fed partition, and the 180 grain 338fed accubond. (From Federal web-site). 2nd chart is energy. The 180 grain 338 is actually flatter than the 180gr 308 and the 210gr 338 is the same. If this is a mostly elk cartridge, go for the 338fed. Not only is the trajectory the same with a 210gr partition, there is the matter of larger frontal area. I have a 338fed in a Sako 85 and love it. I use the 200gr interlocks on deer and hoping to some day use the 210gr partition on elk. If you reload, brass is cheap and everywhere (308 brass) and there is more than enough choices of bullets in 338 calliber. The price of 338 bullets compared to 308 bullets is about 2$ more for a box of 100. If you do not reload, you may want to consider a 308 but I defenetly recomend the 338fed. Also, I know you said Kimber, but you can get a Sako 85 in 338 nib for $750 here:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167773991
I got mine from here and it is the real deal. Apparently Sako way over-estimated the popularity of this cartridge and are trying to get rid of the old stock.
Load No Caliber 50 Y 100 Y 200 Y 300 Y 400 Y 500 Y
P308E 308 Win. (7.62x51mm) 1.1 2.3 -9.4 -26.9 -54.7
P338FB 338 Federal 1.1 2.3 -9.4 -27.3 -56.3
P338FA1 338 Federal 0.8 1.8 -8.2 -23.9 -49.3
Load No Caliber Muzzle 100 Y 200 Y 300 Y 400 Y 500 Y
P308E 308 Win. (7.62x51mm) 2640 2278 1957 1672 1420 1202
P338FB 338 Federal 3225 2712 2266 1878 1545 1266
P338FA1 338 Federal 3201 2672 2214 1820 1482 1199
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167773991
I got mine from here and it is the real deal. Apparently Sako way over-estimated the popularity of this cartridge and are trying to get rid of the old stock.
Load No Caliber 50 Y 100 Y 200 Y 300 Y 400 Y 500 Y
P308E 308 Win. (7.62x51mm) 1.1 2.3 -9.4 -26.9 -54.7
P338FB 338 Federal 1.1 2.3 -9.4 -27.3 -56.3
P338FA1 338 Federal 0.8 1.8 -8.2 -23.9 -49.3
Load No Caliber Muzzle 100 Y 200 Y 300 Y 400 Y 500 Y
P308E 308 Win. (7.62x51mm) 2640 2278 1957 1672 1420 1202
P338FB 338 Federal 3225 2712 2266 1878 1545 1266
P338FA1 338 Federal 3201 2672 2214 1820 1482 1199
rodwhaincamo
New member
PTS: I noticed that you chose a round that is under the typical velocity [50 fps slower] for it's weight for the 30 cal. It's usually spat out at 2620 fps, and it is still flatter. It is still 2" higher at 500 yds. And you cannot compare a boattail to a flatbase bullet as proof otherwise.
So I stand by my earlier statement that it is flatter.
So I stand by my earlier statement that it is flatter.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I sugggest not getting nit-picky over a few inches of trajectory. Several reasons. One is that most game is shot within 300 yards; more commonly, within 200. Next is that many people just can't do well beyond 300 yards, absent quite a bit of practice--particularly in gauging wind drift.
If you use a laser range finder for really-long shots, trajectory should not be a problem. I sorta figure that if a person is smart enough to have the money to buy the gear, he's likely smart enough to figure out the trajectory of his load. I hope so, anyway. But, as we all know, "You can't fix stupid."
I've always been a guesstimator for range, and a holdover guy for aiming. The use of boat-tail bullets is thus helpful. However, in quite a few decades of messing with Bambi, I've only had two occasions to play the Ma Bell game. All in all, some worries are rather like picking fly poop out of pepper.
If you use a laser range finder for really-long shots, trajectory should not be a problem. I sorta figure that if a person is smart enough to have the money to buy the gear, he's likely smart enough to figure out the trajectory of his load. I hope so, anyway. But, as we all know, "You can't fix stupid."
I've always been a guesstimator for range, and a holdover guy for aiming. The use of boat-tail bullets is thus helpful. However, in quite a few decades of messing with Bambi, I've only had two occasions to play the Ma Bell game. All in all, some worries are rather like picking fly poop out of pepper.
Rodwhaincamo: I choose the partition due to it being an elk rifle he is after and compared it with another parttion to keep it fair. You might be right that out past 400 yards threre is an advantage in the 308, but at typical hunting ranges, there is really no difference. I was assuming that since the OP was thinking of getting a Kimber, he was not going to be using it for long range competition. By the way, here is the chart for the 338fed 180gr. accubond against the 308 matchking BTHP in both 168gr and 175gr. 338 is still flatter to 500 yards. (info taken from Federal web-site)
Load No Caliber 50 Y 100 Y 200 Y 300 Y 400 Y 500 Y
P338FA1 338 Federal 0.8 1.8 -8.2 -23.9 -49.3
GM308M2 308 Win. (7.62x51mm) 1.0 2.2 -9.1 -25.8 -51.8
GM308M 308 Win. (7.62x51mm) 1.0 2.1 -8.9 -25.5 -51.5
Load No Caliber 50 Y 100 Y 200 Y 300 Y 400 Y 500 Y
P338FA1 338 Federal 0.8 1.8 -8.2 -23.9 -49.3
GM308M2 308 Win. (7.62x51mm) 1.0 2.2 -9.1 -25.8 -51.8
GM308M 308 Win. (7.62x51mm) 1.0 2.1 -8.9 -25.5 -51.5
rodwhaincamo
New member
"All in all, some worries are rather like picking fly poop out of pepper."
Art: Love that
Art: Love that
rodwhaincamo
New member
PTS: Sorry for sounding nit picky. 
I do feel that the Federal cartridge makes a better elk cartridge.
I do feel that the Federal cartridge makes a better elk cartridge.
I am thinkig the Kimber 84 because I like the action, it will only accept short action cartridges and because of the weight I don't imagine I would like the recoil of anything heavier. Three hundred yard will be my max range, unlees I can really get a great rest with a nice broadside shot and no wind. The 338 is a little appealing because it's different. I may just watch gunbroker for a few weeks and see what shows up that is a good deal.
In the long run I will use it more on deer, but the reality is that I can shoot them here until I'm sick of doing it with most anything.
In the long run I will use it more on deer, but the reality is that I can shoot them here until I'm sick of doing it with most anything.
You'd have a hard time finding a better all round hunting rifle than the Kimber. Stainless action and barrel, CRF and one of the best designed fiberglass stocks made make for a very fine rifle. The stock design and good recoil pad make recoil from a 5lb rifle seem like a 8 lb rifle. My 308 is more accurate than many 10 lb target rifles. You'll love the Kimber.
From a practical standpoint the 308 is the better choice, but if you want something different the 338 is a good one too. Realistically I don't think you give up much either way.
From a practical standpoint the 308 is the better choice, but if you want something different the 338 is a good one too. Realistically I don't think you give up much either way.