IDPA/USPSA Rule Against Changing Barrel Caliber

[rdtompki]

I'm going to start shooting IDPA this weekend with my M&P 40fs. I'm just curious about the rationale against changing barrel caliber given that you can put any same-caliber barrel in the slide as long as it's the same length. For example, using a "match barrel" doesn't seem to be in the spirit of a production handgun.

I'm sure my wife's M&P 9's have lower recoil, but I'm not getting into this with excessive aspirations, more to improve skill with my everyday handgun. (I don't have CCW so everyday is a bit of an overreach).

 

[Jim Watson]

You can change the caliber, it will just move you into IDPA ESP.
What I am curious about is the frequent urge to buy big and shoot small.

 

[Don P]

I believe the best place to get answers would be an email both discipline's and they should be able to give reason why.
A match barrel will have better accuracy than the stock barrel and as in that gun it DOES NOT come from the factory THAT way so there fore it would NOT BE A PRODUCTION gun. Production means just that out of the box. If the barrel swap gives/gave you an advantage over other shooters the that would void the fairness of the game. You want to improve your skills then shoot the gun as it comes from the factory or as in USPSA shoot the open division so just about anything goes. They want to keep the production gun division so ANYONE(new shooters) can shoot the out of the box gun at a match and be equal with regards to equipment and the only difference would be skill in shooting

 

[g.willikers]

You are assuming that anyone will check or care.
At a high level match, maybe, but at a local one, doubtful.
Especially for a new shooter.

 

[rdtompki]

What I am curious about is the frequent urge to buy big and shoot small.

Not my urge at all. I'm very satisfied with the M&P 40 and the difference in ammo cost between 9 and 40 is in the noise. I did originally buy the 40 because it was coming off the CA roster and 9mm were very, very hard to find (CA-compliant that is). Having done so I don't intend to go back other than if I think there is a 40S&W shortage looming. With my senior citizen eyes the 40 cal holes appear much easier to see.

I'll go back and look at the IDPA rules again, but I thought that barrel changes, even to non-S&W barrels, were allowed in SSP provided no change in caliber. I'm probably mistaken.

 

[g.willikers]

If you're looking for holes in the targets, you're gonna' be slower than molasses in January.
They'll be timing you with a calendar.

 

[Don P]

Why not shoot the wife's gun at the match?

You are assuming that anyone will check or care.
At a high level match, maybe, but at a local one, doubtful.
Especially for a new shooter.

Most probably true, on the other hand I have come across some range Nazi's at local matches running a squad that have cover garment checks with arms extended out making sure that a 1/16" of holster or mag pouch is NOT visible and have seen one wanting to check guns but was stopped by the match director. As a member of IDPA and shooting match's at different clubs it is simply amazing the way folks think that being a SO makes them this powerful person with the huge ego and we'll do it my way.

 

[rdtompki]

If you're looking for holes in the targets, you're gonna' be slower than molasses in January.
They'll be timing you with a calendar.

Where's the smiley I'm certainly not going to be looking for holes during a timed competition although I'm not going to be going very fast. Get a sight picture and squeeze trigger. If I feel I executed a flyer I'll take another shot. I believe I'll be well within soft boiled egg timer range.

 

[RickB]

Most probably true, on the other hand I have come across some range Nazi's at local matches running a squad that have cover garment checks with arms extended out making sure that a 1/16" of holster or mag pouch is NOT visible and have seen one wanting to check guns but was stopped by the match director. As a member of IDPA and shooting match's at different clubs it is simply amazing the way folks think that being a SO makes them this powerful person with the huge ego and we'll do it my way.
__________________

Wow, you mean a guy, who's responsible for enforcing the rules of a sport, was insisting on doing so?
Next thing you know, they'll expect you to be an IDPA member and shoot the classifier every year!

 

[zincwarrior]

Quote:
Most probably true, on the other hand I have come across some range Nazi's at local matches running a squad that have cover garment checks with arms extended out making sure that a 1/16" of holster or mag pouch is NOT visible and have seen one wanting to check guns but was stopped by the match director. As a member of IDPA and shooting match's at different clubs it is simply amazing the way folks think that being a SO makes them this powerful person with the huge ego and we'll do it my way.
__________________

Wow, you mean a guy, who's responsible for enforcing the rules of a sport, was insisting on doing so?
Next thing you know, they'll expect you to be an IDPA member and shoot the classifier every year

Seriously? If you're going to go to that extent, especially at a local match, I'd just walk away. Its not going to be a fun match.

 

[Jim Watson]

I thought that barrel changes, even to non-S&W barrels, were allowed in SSP provided no change in caliber.

This is correct.
It's not that aftermarket barrel shoppers are out for "match grade", trying to steal a march on other "stock" guns in accuracy. The targets are large and usually close. Most are after conventional land & groove barrels because they are afraid to shoot cast bullets in their 19th century Metford style rounded "polygon" Glock etc factory barrels.

A caliber change moves you into ESP.

 

[WESHOOT2]

rules is rules

Follow the rules of your chosen event.
To do otherwise is to "cheat".

Who wants to "win" that badly?



I follow rules; I complain about (my) performance

 

[Jeff22]

conversion barrels

I have 9mm conversion barrels for all my .40 cal handguns, just to give me flexibility in situations where ammo is hard to come by. Or if I get a REALLY good deal on 9mm, then I can shoot that in practice.

I have Lone Wolf conversion barrels for a G35 and G22, a BarSto conversion barrel for a Sig 226 in .40 cal , and a Storm Lake conversion barrel for my S&W M&P in .40.

I have .22 conversion units for all those guns too, but right now 9mm and .40 cal are easier to find than .22LR.

 

[rdtompki]

I have 9mm conversion barrels for all my .40 cal handguns, just to give me flexibility in situations where ammo is hard to come by. Or if I get a REALLY good deal on 9mm, then I can shoot that in practice.

I'll probably get a 9mm barrel at some point, but we have two 9mm and two 40 cal M&P so I've always got the option of shooting one of my wife's 9mm

My original question of changing calibers in SSP was one of curiosity. IDPA allows significant internal changes and changes to non-original barrels of the same caliber. Within the M&P line putting a 9mm barrel in a 40 cal slide doesn't seem to provide any advantage over someone shooting a native 9mm M&P.

If I had an Apex modified frame in a 40 (I don't) I could game the system by putting one of my wife's slides on my 40 frame. This wouldn't be ethical and I'm not competing for anything in IDPA, just trying to improve.

 

[g.willikers]

Here it comes again, one of my favorite quotes:
"The gun is the least of it."
Translates to less thinking about equipment and more about shooting.

 

[Don P]

Wow, you mean a guy, who's responsible for enforcing the rules of a sport, was insisting on doing so?
Next thing you know, they'll expect you to be an IDPA member and shoot the classifier every year!

It does take the fun out of a local match going to this extent. Should we assume that if the cover garment was that 1/16" short we should not let that shooter participate? That is exactly how new shooters get turned off and DO NOT COME BACK.

Seriously? If you're going to go to that extent, especially at a local match, I'd just walk away. Its not going to be a fun match.

My point exactly and it did turn out to be a fun match because I had to DQ him because he broke the 180 on a reload moving from right to left. I'll add that no one was sorry to see him go and to show the kind of guy he is he didn't stick around to help run the squad. He abruptly left the range after the DQ. Karma a wonderful thing.

 

[rdtompki]

Somehow the sense of my original question got lost in the interweb. I'm not looking to shoot SSP with a 9mm barrel in my 40. I'm just curious why IDPA allows internal changes (e.g., Apex) versus changing caliber in a handgun that can be purchased in almost the identical form in 9mm.

I can only assume that at the time of the rule change S&W was a major sponsor of IDPA and the earlier M&P didn't have very good triggers; Otherwise, wouldn't a service pistol be shot as received from the manufacturer with allowance for grip enhancement, polishing and sights only.

 

[Jim Watson]

"Action work" to "enhance trigger pull" and "improve feeding and ejection" has always been specifically allowed for SSP, as has barrel replacement with one of "factory configuration". It is not something brought in to pander to S&W.

I do not find it worthwhile to psychoanalyze the rulemakers.
Personally, I would like to see SSP held more nearly to true "stock" and more "Customization" and "Enhancement" allowed in those divisions.
But that is not what we have.

 

[RickB]

Over the years, Stock Service Pistol has become anything but stock, but it is sort of strange that you can essentially change every part inside the gun and it's still considered stock, but the line is drawn at changing calibers?
A factory barrel in a different caliber seems more stock than an aftermarket barrel in the original chambering.