Identifying Swiss Rifle type

[Limeyfellow]

I been given a Swiss rifle as a gift and when I check the serial numbers I never can find a range this one falls in. It seems an odd serial number but its 440562. It has 7.5 on the side so should be standard swiss and has plenty of pressure test marks on the rifle. Has a full length of 51.5 inches.

At first I thought it was a K31 but when I checked closer I have seen things that don't add to that conclusion.

Other information it has a manufactures mark of H&H which if I read correctly was Hämmerli & Hausch though it makes little sense since there name was changed in the early 20s.

It has a WF26 (where the W and F are right next to each other). Normally thats a repair mark but again its too early to be a K31 with that mark one would think.

Other stange marks are a large B on top on its own.

The bolt has its locking lugs have way down the bolt and not at the end like a K31 does.

I included some photos of this and some of the markings below but am I right in thinking this is a Swiss K11 from I guess by the serial number dates to 1917?

 

[BobR]

How long is the barrel?

It is either a 1911 Infantry Model (long barrel) or a K11 (Carbine) if the barrel is short.

Try on this site. http://swissriflewebsite.com/

If you mistook it for a K31, I would bet it is a K11.

bob

 

[Mike Irwin]

Definitely NOT a K31 with that bolt. A dead give-away is that the 1889s up through the 1911s had the bolt with 2 diameter bodies.

The sight, however, isn't right for a 1911 carbine. The carbine's sights were graduated to 1500 meters instead of the rifle's 2,000 meters, and that certainly looks like a 2000 meter rear sight.

What does the front sight look like?

 

[Limeyfellow]

It is 2000 metres and the length of 51.5 inch would make it the full length infantry model 1911 then. Nice. Any idea of a cost of one of these, in excellent condition, all parts matching, 95% blueing? It really is a beauty and I proudly have it next to my Lee Enfields. It was a choice between that and a Polish Kar98 that I was working on for a neighbour so I want to make sure I haven't ripped her off since I gather it be more expensive than the $100-150 I priced it as a K31 in my mistakes.

Thanks for the help. Not had much experiance with Schmidt Ruben rifles.

 

[BobR]

You can go here for a sample of pricing on these guns.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=22_83_141

bob

 

[Donaldo]

If you handload be CAREFUL!!!!!! Most handloads state that the load data is for K31's only, and not for K11's such as yours.

 

[Gewehr98]

Does the rifle look like this one?

This is the full-length Infantry Model 1911 in my collection:

As for handloads, I use the same load data I use for .308 Winchester in my M1911 S-R, 41.5gr IMR4895 behind a 168gr Sierra MatchKing.

 

[Limeyfellow]

As for handloads, I use the same load data I use for .308 Winchester in my M1911 S-R, 41.5gr IMR4895 behind a 168gr Sierra MatchKing.

Thanks. I'll have to test that one out and see how it fires.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Unless otherwise stated, the handloads you'll find in the Sierra, Hornady, etc. manuals are prefectly safe in a 1911 rifle, as most of that loading data was developed well before the K31 was released into the surplus market.

The true problem is that there are some M1889, M1897, M89/00, and M1905s floating around the surplus market, and these are definitely NOT safe for use with commercial loads or handloads not marked as being suitable for the earlier rifles.

Luckily, those models are relatively uncommon.

A dead giveaway on the 1889 rifle is the 12-round box magazine.